Building Communities, Saving Lives: Beth Dolan on Military Reintegration and Filmmaking

Beth Dolan is an award-winning writer, producer, and documentary filmmaker. A graduate of Carnegie-Mellon University’s College of Fine Arts.

In recent years she has turned her attention fully, with producing and creative partners, Luis Remesar and Sheila Higgins, to social justice-themed documentary storytelling.

Their recently released documentary STRANGER AT HOME: Healing The Psychological Wounds of War currently airs and streams on national PBS and The WORLD CHANNEL. Their latest documentary WELCOME HOME, is a story focused on establishing a comprehensive national reintegration program for our services members 

Beth is also the proud producer and host of the Blog Talk podcast “Being Deliberately” and consults regularly on how to get a social justice documentary to distribution on PBS. www.coyotepassproductions.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Our guest today is Beth Dolan. She is an award-winning writer, producer, and documentary filmmaker, and a graduate of Carnegie Mellon University's College of Fine Arts. In recent years, she's turned her attention fully with producing and creative partners Louise Remazar and Sheila Higgins to social justice-themed documentary storytelling. Their recently released documentary, A Stranger at Home, Healing the Psychological Wounds of War, currently airs and streams on national PBS and the World Channel. Their latest documentary, Welcome Home, is a story focused on establishing a comprehensive national reintegration program for our service members. Beth is also the proud producer and host of the podcast Being Deliberately and consults regularly on how to get a social justice documentary to distribution on PBS. Find out more at CoyotePassProductions.com. And Carol, Beth won the Roy Dean Film Award for her film Stranger at Home. Yes, that's right, Claire.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

And thank you so much for joining us, Beth.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

It's my pleasure to be here with you beautiful ladies again. Carol and Claire, thank you so much for your just gracious intro. And I just love conversation with both of you.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Perfect. Perfect. Because welcome home is a powerful concept. So let's start with you sharing what inspired you to focus on this story and why you feel it's essential today.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Well, uh, you know, documentary filmmaking. So our film Stranger at Home, which is a military-themed um documentary that's in distribution now. Um, and in that film, we got to the thing behind the thing like, why do we have a military mental health crisis? And we also brought forward the solutions to end that crisis. And so our new documentary, Welcome Home, really is a very natural spin-off of that documentary. Um, Welcome Home focuses the story on what would it look like to have the grandest, greatest, warmest welcome back for our service members and their families. Presently we have none. We have not had a comprehensive national military veteran reintegration program in this country since get ready, folks, um, the end of World War II, 1945. Um, it was some a program was put into place, a comprehensive program at that time by uh President Roosevelt, who said we will help these people coming back comprehensively: mental health, physical health, spiritual help, vocational therapy, family therapy. It was cutting edge at the time. And once the war ended and President Roosevelt died in office, it got shelved that program, which is just heartbreaking. There hasn't been a comprehensive national program to welcome our service members home since that time. And of course, as we all know, we've had many, many war conflicts and situations since 1945. So it's time. That's um, you know, and as we are all looking at the traumas of the world, and we are all experiencing those at the at the really, you know, consciousness level, you know, a pandemic, a world pandemic put us all into that place of understanding what trauma is a bit more. The mental health conversation is huge right now, and it's not just those military people over there who've got the issues and the problems and the PTSD and all of that. We are all in it right now, and so that's why Welcome Home is just this natural and purposeful storytelling spin-off, and what we can do as documentary filmmakers to keep that conversation going.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

So wonderful, Beth, because you recognize, first of all, you made an important film for all of us to say, look, we have a problem, here's the problem, and now you're following up with a film that can make changes and initiate what we need to reintegrate servicemen. This is fantastic, and I honor you for taking this on because it's a four to five year project. I'm sure you realize.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure, Carolyn. I keep saying, you know, I feel like Michael Corleone in in Godfather Three, you know, I try to get out and they pull me back in. You know, it's it's this, it, this is not um, you know, this is not romantic comedy um storytelling. This is really just human nature, what you know, need, you know, what we need and and storytelling that we are just continuously being impelled and compelled to stay the course and be, you know, to tell those stories to keep that conversation going. So yeah, thank you very much. I I uh I'm honored to be uh, you know, a filmmaker and be on the path and feel purposeful, and and at the same time, it's both and it's like, oh my gosh, it it all feels so big sometimes, you know. Um right now, as you are well aware, you know, just a massive, massive heart and and compassion for everyone in our beloved California, and especially LA County, that is just just decimated right now uh from the uh the wildfires and and the trauma. You know, they haven't even begun to to the the journey of healing and rebuilding. They're they're just still in it right now, and it's and and the news reports are are real. I mean, I I don't live in it anymore. I got my my spouse and I got out of that stress uh as of mid-August. And uh, you know, I'm on a snowpacked mountain in Maryland right now speaking to you, where we have our East Coast production office now, and I'm on the other side of the phone calls. You know, I for years and years we got the phone calls around this time, uh wildfire time. You know, are you alive? Are you safe? Are you, you know, and now we're making the calls to the people that we care about out there. And so then the news footage is real, it really is. It's a horrifying thing to watch. And um, and the trauma that has to be talked about, has to be addressed, and um and it's so it's as filmmakers, you know, talking about the mental health crisis with our military, it it's so pertinent, relevant, and crossover to all of humankind right now. And more than ever, there's an openness to the discussion. So that's why we stay in the you know, in the uh in the trench with the with making these kinds of films. And Carol, you are the glue from the Heart Productions is the glue that keeps um us anchored, you know, into something when it all just seems so like big and how do we how do we keep going? So I you know, I just want to take a moment and thank you and bless you for the work that you do and the support you give filmmakers like us. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Thank you, Beth. How very kind of you. I think we're back to uh Mother Teresa, who said uh that people doing small things can make a major impact. Yeah. So and there is a parallel because it's loss. These uh soldiers lost their home when they left. It's totally different when they come back, and this is what's happening in LA with the lost home and jobs and friends and neighbors, etc. So um the thing is that you're you know what you're doing, and you're the right one to make this film. So thank you. All of us are behind you. So since you were saying that uh we haven't had a reintegration program since World War II, right? What do you think are the consequences of this gap? And how do you see it affecting service members and their families? That's a that's a superb question.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

The consequences of not having a warm, comprehensive, real, fully funded, fully operational national program, what that the consequences of that are cumulative and they're exponential. So when we talk about a military mental health crisis, which people are sick of hearing those words, but the truth of it is the symptoms of that crisis, they're even sicker of the symptoms of hearing about those. The symptoms of that are just rampant veteran military homelessness, incarceration, military veteran incarceration, and of course, the big one that everyone is so sick of hearing about are the 22 military suicides per day, which is a low number. You know, it's that's the reported number. And that number has been going on now for about 20 years. So the crisis is is that is that that's those are the headliners of the crisis of this the consequences of the of the crisis that affect us all, uh that affect us at every level, you know, and and so because there is no um real program that brings these folks back, provides them with, connects them into all the resources. You know, we've met in our journey of making Stranger at Home and now with Welcome Home. Carol, we have met, you know, God, there are thousands of on-the-ground nonprofit organizations across this country that are dedicated to helping veterans and their families in every capacity, from the service dogs to finding a home, to they're everywhere. And they are not connected by a national program whatsoever. So they all struggle to make their their, you know, do their fundraising, to put out their, you know, hang their shingle, and veterans and their family members are not able to access easily that information. So it's like, it's like it's a big question. It's like, why? Why does it have to be this siloed um, you know, scramble as you can effort for these folks that have given everything? And when they come back, they're leading very different lives in the military. They, they're, they're they're organized in a way and trained in a way to everything is scheduled for them so that they can serve and and do the you know, execute the training that they've been trained for to serve our country. So now they're coming back and they're they're struggling to reintegrate that change. Like, how do I get a job? How do I come back and um you know, how do I find schools for my kids? The military took care of that before. How do I make medical appointments? The military took care of that before. So it's this retraining, it's this, you know, it's all these resources, and so there's just a you know, a disconnect that is exists and it doesn't have to. So that's what you know, the program that was done by, you know, mandated from the top down, that's the program that was put into place. Service members, men, I'm sorry to say, ladies, you know, this at the time men were serving. This program, they were coming right off the transport ships and they were not sent back home right away. They were brought into this program. It was a pilot program, by the way. And it was three weeks or three to seven weeks where they were, you know, they were given, they were helped. Um, and you know, shell shock was the the psychological, mental health, spiritual peace that they were dealing with, on top of how do they come back and get jobs and all of those things. You can't think about getting a job if you're messed up in your mind. You you you can't focus, function. And so this program really addressed comprehensively body, mind, and spirit, um their needs coming right off the transport ships. And at the time, this is the shocker for for us that the at the time, director, acclaimed director, John Houston, who was enlisted in the military at the time. He was in the army, he was tasked by the military, because the military had been mandated by President Roosevelt to create this program. He was then tasked, ordered to record this program. This was his very first documentary, John Houston, in the army. At the end of World War.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I know that, Beth. I know that because my friend Sonny Fasulis was a navigator. Uh and he was in uh he talked about well, he became good friends with Houston. But it all started when he was Houston was on the plane he was on, and the more flack, the more bots going off around him, the more excited Houston became. And Sonny said he was running from window to window and giving every shot. Forget about dying. It's wonderful. Neither of those men thought they were going to die in the uh in the war. And Sonny made uh an enormous amount of successful bombing trips, and he was never well, he was injured and captured many times, but he he lived. And they come out of the war. Some of the guys come out of the war with that feeling that they are invincible, and some come out feeling that they they can never get it together again. Uh, you know, they just can't find, but see, things have changed since they were bombing with in inside of a plane bombing. Now the troops uh come home with uh so many more uh physical illnesses and limbs. They've lose so many limbs because of this, that it's a totally different world. But it is Houston was Houston loved what he did, and and I don't know where all those films went. Did you follow that?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yes, we did, and we we you know we tell the story in in Stranger at Home. We um so yeah, I mean, uh Sonny's story, uh a World War II bomber. I mean, you can't every story matters, and I don't know if he ever like got things off of his heart of what he saw and did and all of that before he left this mortal coil. But John Houston, to your question, John Huston, as a filmmaker and and uh you know in the military, he recorded the program, and the film is called Let There Be Light. It's a documentary. And yes, it is a feature-length documentary, there's not an actor in it, it's all it's all true soldiers, and you can see it's black and white, and it's you know, it's melodramatic music from that time, but you see them, they are vacant in their eyes, they are they're decimated. And by the end of the film and the program that they went through, that he recorded it, there's something coming back into their beings that's a little more healed. Now, so this film was um, this film uh had it, was was scheduled to have its public, not military, but public premiere at the New York, I think the Metro, the the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. And at the very last moment, Carol, the military police, they got cold feet, came in and confiscated the film. And you may ask, yeah, and and shelved it. They classified it, they shelved it, and it was not seen by the public. So this was a film that they were tasked by the commander-in-chief to uh make, a program that they were tasked by the commander-in-chief to establish. Then the film they tasked John Houston to make, and then they came in and took their film and classified it, put it on a shelf. And it wasn't until uh 45 years later, and Jimmy Carter's administration, Walter Mondale, found the film in the archives and declassified it. And folks can go and watch this film, this what this program looked like, cutting edge. I mean, they had art therapy, they had all the things that we know today, Carol, that are um healing um therapies. They had those in this program. And they defined mental illness in such a compassionate and true way in this film. It was the Army's language, the military's language, that they said, oops, we don't want to, you know, have the public hear this, you know, us taking accountability, responsibility, compassionate understanding of this. We don't want that to be seen now. And so, anyway, people can see this film. It is on YouTube. It is Let There Be Light by John Houston, his very first documentary film. And so, yeah, that's and we we just were the reboot, Stranger at Home. We we could use that footage in our film. It was public domain, and we use a lot of the footage from Let There Be Light. We we of course credit it, and our principal speaker speaks about John Houston in our film, Stranger at Home. So we're we're the reboot of Let There Be Light. You know, why you why has it been under wraps and under dust for so long? So that's the that's the sad part. But in the film, in our film, we say, let's re-establish that program. Why don't we have that program? So that's where it sits. That's the story of the next film, which is this is what it would look like, folks. You know, there's a lot more light in Welcome Home because there are so many groups on the ground that are trying to do it regionally, trying to do a military veteran reintegration program regionally. And golly, what would it look like to have all sectors of this country corporate, nonprofit, um, military, civilian, all coming together to fully fund, make fully operational, and establish into legislation once and for all, a national program for our service members. We would, I believe in every fiber of my being, we would no longer have a mental health crisis in our military because we would be getting these folks help when they got out immediately, before they got out, a program that would reach out to them two years before their discharge and say, This is what's gonna be different when you come out, and we're here for you. So it's just it's a no-brainer, but it all just seems like really we're still doing this in fragmented pieces, but on paper, it's a no brainer. So that's that's my two cents. Well, that's fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Well, now, um what you're talking about was called the GI Bill in 1944. They gave man educational training and benefits, they got Financial assistance to go to school or vocational training. They got high school diplomas. They had loan guarantees. The government low interest loans. They had unemployment compensation, the 5220. Well, in those days,$20 a week was 194 was a whole year of that. And then they had their medical care and disability. So tell me what you're envisioning for your accusation.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Well, I think I think you're spot on. There is there's the GI Bill's been in place forever and ever and ever. And so many enlisted in all the wars, you know, war events over the years to have the GI Bill. My brothers did that um from the when they enlisted in the army. The GI Bill, it does provide that education, all of that, there are benefits, medical benefits. You are the thing of it is that if you have psychological problems, it's the psychological piece that is still um the you know the bugaboo. The climate of stigma, mental health stigma within the military still exists. And so if you do put your hand up and say, I do, I'm having problems with my third deployment, I'm having problems with coming back. PTSD doesn't raise its ugly head sometimes for years for people. So that's the GI Bill, the the um the medical benefits, you are you do not, if you are discharged for PTSD issues, psychological issues, you do not get full benefits. And most folks don't know that. That exists today. So even though we as a general population, we believe in the GI, we believe that the GI Bill exists, we believe that the medical benefits exist, there are big gaps. And so what the envision for a national program looks like is it it goes back to what I said a little a short while ago is like if you're messed up from the experience, traumatically messed up, and you don't have to serve in combat to be messed up, the training alone of being in the military and being around the energy of the stress of your colleagues who are on the front line, you know. Like I know you can speak to this, Carol. You're feeling the energy, you're safe for the moment, thank God, where you are in California, but you are so feeling the stress and the trauma of everyone just 45 minutes, you know, around you.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

And that is true for the military as well. You don't have to serve on the front line to have PTSD, and it also doesn't mean that you're going to have PTSD if you serve on the front line. So I want to make that very clear. The military training alone, which is they have to override a soldier's central nervous system in order to do the in order for them to do the job that they are signed up to do, that most of us will never do or want to do. Human beings by nature are not programmed to kill other human beings. And so that is the training in the military. And that is that alone, that training. As our principal and stranger at home said, our Navy psychologist who work who saw it all, he said, we we work so hard to psychologically train our people to do the job that they have to do using psychology. We don't untrain them psychologically. So having said that, you can have the GI Bill waiting for you, you can know that the medical benefits are out there if you're able to advocate for yourself and get them. But if you are offline in your central nervous system, and you it's very difficult to focus, it's very difficult to, you know, to know. It's just a very difficult thing to want to even get an education and learn. It's like we have to heal that. We have to we have to look at the total body healing. And the climate of stigma in the military doesn't fully allow for that yet. A national program of full-body healing, full-body therapy, full body attention is what the nature of a national program would really, you know, look like, comprehensive, and and help people, you know, mend every aspect of themselves or to the best of their ability in order to live a productive life as a civilian, once again. So the expectation that that a soldier and their family member who's they're just scrambling to like make sense of anything, that they are going to be like ready to get a job and ready to get an education, it it's all great in theory, but if you're if you if you don't know who you are, that's our title, Stranger at Home. If you don't know who you are, then then none of that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

So yes, you are so right. Now, uh, so what you have, yeah, uh what you're thinking is that storytelling can make the case for this uh reintegration program, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Well, yes, I mean thanks, Carol, you know, and you're always such a great teacher of what's your story. Um, you know, when we're storytellers, we really are, and um that's what that's what filmmaking is, telling telling a story. And I also want to add that it, I believe, from just the journey of being on this path with you know, so many military veteran active duty and their family members for so long, uh the store, the stories, every single one of them matters. All of our stories matter. We all have a story. And and that's for me, that's always the starting point. I mean, Sonny has a story, your sonny has had a story, uh, John Houston had a story. And and when we can come from that uh lived and um experiential, uh expressive place, uh I think I know in my heart that that's what um lands on others. It's an identification thing. You know, I so yes, uh our as ever, our doc our new documentary, Welcome Home, focused on what it would look like to have an incredibly grand and the best uh uh national program um that they deserve. It it leads with telling the those stories and and what they need, you know, to come back. So that's that's my answer for storytelling first.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Okay, so it's community and connections to the community, right? That's what you're uh want to build it around, a strong community.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you. I I love those words, connection, you know, and community. They're I think they're one in the same. You know, we're all connected. I know that in my soul, and um we're all we're all part of a of a greater, you know, a greater entity. And um, and then and how that looks in how that how we can understand that in in the life experience is is in community. You know, we we're we're tribal people, we're tribal beings, and human beings are pack animals. We need each other. Boy, do we need each other. I I can't imagine doing the work that I do without others. You know, it's fully collaborative. It's fully like, what do you do well? Oh, please join us. What do you do well? Please join us. You know, we we do not create in vacuums. And um, and so and we don't live in vacuums either. It's not healthy uh to to isolate, to you know, to close off from our packs. And so community, oh I think what's you know, a real specific answer to the themes of our films, it it's it's really about, I mean, I want people to hear that I'm a I'm a civilian with a very, very deep, like you, Carol, very deep military family history. It goes way back, but I'm a civilian, and what I've learned in humbly and and just informationally is that as a civilian, we uh we have to join the military communities in learning, in being open, in understanding what they they live through. And and as a community, a mill-siv community, we all need to change the course of things and make welcoming home people uh a model for how we reintegrate. And and it it's it's it's a model for someone who may be coming out of the prison system. Exactly, Beth.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Right, right, yes, and if you if you bring that home, Sing Sing is a story about a man who had a redemption. I haven't seen it yet, but he worked uh in uh a Shakespearean play. Now um Jillanne Spitzmiller, who we both know, did Shakespeare Behind Bars years ago, and it was the that prison program that they used to make that film. It was her documentary they based it on. Yeah, in my opinion, I mean she made that film and now they're they've created Sing Sing. But see, this follows with your I your statement of art, getting art classes. That would mean connecting to theaters and the community where theaters welcomed, returning vets, maybe for uh free, they donated services and filmmaking classes free, art classes free, so that they can express themselves because this is the problem getting that emotion out of the body and onto something else, not another human, either acting it out or playing it out or making a movie, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Yes, Carol. Without question, without question, we you know as well as I do that art matters big time, especially in consciousness at this point. It just does. It's a way out. It's it it's letting energy move through you and out of you. When it stays inside of you and it doesn't have a release, that's when we have this ongoing ongoing situations, like you know, before the fires in California, we we were we were all looking at what happened in New Orleans and what happened in Las Vegas. Those were vet, that was a veteran and an active duty soldier that had isolated and closed down. And when that happens, that that's when tragedy and everything, you know, that that's the issue right there. And how do we keep reaching out that warm hand and saying, you're not alone, come back in over here. But art, art is is matters. We've met we've met, we've been privileged to meet so many military uh veteran filmmakers on this path. They're telling their own stories through filmmaking. It's awesome. I mean, you know, that's where I have to go. These guys have the story, and if they can get it on, you know, on the screen, yes, absolutely. So, you know, more of that. We're at a time, we're at a crescendo point in consciousness where we just have to keep um, I want to say, educating ourselves about the nature of trauma, about you know, reflect on the human condition deeply, um, and and talk about the whole body, experience mind, body, spirit with with deep honor and admiration, and and know that it all works together. And so, you know, people are doing that in art, and it's profound. Uh, you know, that so you're spot on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Well, Beth, I know that um I know you work with filmmakers who make commercials, features, and documentaries, but I want you to share some of the work that you and the coyote productions do.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Well, yeah, thank you. I appreciate I appreciate the nod. You know, we're um we in fact I wanna I want to give folks, I'm just gonna say this out loud. Um, you know, Claire, you were kind enough to sort of give, you know, our our you know, way to reach out through Coyote Pass Productions. And indeed, I would rather just have folks reach us, reach out to me at Beth at Strangerathome.org. So it's Beth at Strangerathome.org. And that's really our brand right now and where we're living all of what's occurred for us with our social justice military theme doc filmmaking in the last you know, many, you know, quite a few years, Carol. So um Coyote Pass Productions started us off at with you know uh PSAs, you know, that mattered to us, public service announcements that mattered to us, with short form documentaries that mattered to us. This was all for hire, people coming to us and saying, we would like you, you know, we'd like to tell this story. And we were like, okay, this is you know, this is what we're we can help you with from development all the way through delivery. But in in recent years, we've really just set ourselves off with our brand at strangerathome.org um to do what we want to do, you know, to do the stories that that we want to tell. Um, and Coyote Pass Productions was has been our you know our banner for a long time, but boy, we're we're really in the you know, in in the strangerathome.org world at this point. So that's it's both and. So that's that's what we do. And um we're you know, we're we're creating our our all of our virtual events with our impact tour. It's been a it's been quite a journey of being in this lane of messaging, and and the need keeps presenting itself, and we keep showing up with events and with you know, uh impact tours and um just you know trying to keep the the conversation going like this, just getting on a podcast, this special podcast with you, Carol, and talking about it again. So can't talk about it enough.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

This is very important, Beth, because we have to keep this alive and moving. It's a major issue that's been neglected. And it's only through film like this, a documentary like this, can turn things down.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I I I I believe I believe in the reach and the power of films. I just do. And um, you know, it it it would be a hubris statement for me to say that I don't tire of, you know, like how do we do this? How do we keep going? How do we keep funding? But it it because it's true, it takes a it takes a lot to stay with it. But what overrides everything is my belief in films and that people want real uh stories that are what documentaries are about. So you've been a huge champion of that, and you've kept us in in the trench for as long as we're here, Carol. So, you know, kudos.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

I you know that's it's true, it's both and well, it's uh the knowledge that once you finish the film, you think, wow, uh what a great achievement. But then no, now the job is to you have to distribute it yourself, really, to get it in the hands of the people that can make change.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yes, yes. So yeah, we have a we have a, you know, I it's like I have to keep really just reminding and renewing on the why. And you know, if our film, if our films really impact legislation, that's like let's you know, bring it, bring it. Yeah. So we and I believe that films, especially documentaries, social justice documentaries, have the power to do that. So yep.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Yes. And you got it on PBS, congratulations. Thank you so much. Bet so you're helping other filmmakers now to put films on PBS.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yes, uh, it's it's it's my pleasure, you know, for whatever I can offer. Um I because I was given such mentorship and guidance to to get to public television. Um, so it whatever I can offer in return is is is a pleasure and an honor. So yeah, we we did very well. We've got um another another two years in distribution on PBS and the World Channel, and they did another you know, brilliant, brilliant run with us uh over Veterans Day this past November. Um, you know, we've we're we're prime time we've gotten prime time viewing. We we've gotten to 84% of the country. And when I started this journey of making Stranger at Home, I said, I this film has to get in front of a public audience. I'm the public. I didn't know about this stuff. I didn't know the thing behind the thing, the reason for a crisis. I didn't understand any of that. Um and so that's why it was just imperative that I said, God, if I didn't know, you know, I I have to believe that the general public doesn't know. So there's been such a want and desire from PBS National and the World Channel to broadcast us, to stream us. So yeah, I I appreciate all of it. And um, you know, again, until until we have something in legislation and I, you know, there's there's a real program out there, then you know, maybe the work isn't done yet. So I can keep talking about it, is what I'm trying to say. Keep talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

No, that's what it takes. Consistency. It's the I say that tenacity is the backbone of the filmmaker.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

You know, yep, yep. There's there a little bit of tenacity and a lot of insanity, Carol.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Okay, well, thank you, Beth. Thank you so much, Claire and I'd love to have you come back and join us in a year, and we'll see where you are with your new film.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

So thank you for having me. And and um, I'd love you to have our director, Sheila Higgins, you know, brilliant, eloquent, eloquent voice. You know, she's in the trench with directing this one. I'm I'm her I'm her producer. Um, and um it it it's a real honor to see what she's doing with this. So yes, we'd we'd love to come back. We love you guys, and um can't thank you enough for keeping the conversation going with us.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Oh, it's very important. Claire, thank you for hosting the show and for being part of the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Yes, as always. Um, and Beth, uh keep up the good work. This is amazing stuff you're doing and very needed. And I know that this can land in the hearts of a lot of people, no matter what kind of background they have, work they've done. And so keep going with it. Thank you. And it's an honor to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Ah, thank you, Claire. You you guys are awesome. You really are. Thank you so much, Matt. Big hug to Lewis. I will, I will. And love love love to everybody at From the Heart Productions. Thank you.