The Art of Film Funding
Discover the secrets to funding and creating successful indie films with The Art of Film Funding Podcast. Join Carole Dean, President of From the Heart Productions and author of The Art of Film Funding, and Heather Lenz, director of the award-winning documentary Kusama-Infinity, as they chat with top film industry pros. Get practical insider tips on crowdfunding, pitching, saving on budgets, marketing, hybrid distribution, and the latest in A.I. filmmaking. Whether you’re funding your first project or navigating new trends, this podcast has everything you need to succeed. Subscribe and let’s get your film funded!
The Art of Film Funding
How the doc Touch The Wall had 363 Cinema on Demand screenings
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SPEAKER_04Hi and welcome to the Art of Film Funding. I'm your co-host, Claire Capan. Along with Carol Dean, author of the best-selling book, The Art of Film Funding, Carol is also the founder and president of From the Heart Productions and the host of this show. Christo Brock is an independent producer and director, best known for the iconic swim film Touch the Wall. He wrote, directed with his partner Grant Barbito, and independently produced the film, then developed an independent distribution strategy for the film. Christo's last film, Touch the Wall, follows two Olympic swimmers, veteran Kara Lynn Joyce and then newcomer Missy Franklin, as the two trained for the London Olympic Games. At those games, Missy Franklin became a domestic and international sports star after she won four gold medals and broke two world records. The film has quickly become a classic in the sports documentary and female empowerment community. And Carol, you'll be covering the distribution on Touch the Wall as well today.
SPEAKER_05Yes, exactly, Claire. Thank you, Christo, for joining us.
SPEAKER_02My my pleasure.
SPEAKER_05I understand that you graduated from USC and while you were there you studied editing with Kate Ahmed and directing with Mark Harris. Are these uh the things you really love to do the most on films?
SPEAKER_02You know, they have been. I I um I trained as a as a as an editor and director, and uh I I didn't mean to go into documentary films, but um they they're just more interesting to work on, certainly for an editor, because um y uh as an editor in a documentary film, you're also the writer. And um it just kind of became this wonderful puzzle that one can put together in the edit room um and kind of tell tell any story that you want. I mean, hopefully you're telling the story that's supposed to be told, but um it's just there's a lot more challenge to it.
SPEAKER_05There is a lot of challenge, and it's not as easy as it sounds because in working with documentary filmmakers, there are often so many stories, so many subtexts, so many directions you can go with the film that it becomes really important to uh give up some of your uh darlings, you may say, and stay within a certain small amount of information when the film is can explode and go so many directions. So that's how do you handle that part?
SPEAKER_02That and actually I think that's one of the hardest parts about making a film, whether it's either a documentary or a fiction film, um, is staying focused and keeping things simple. And uh I I work really hard to keep things simple so that so that the film is cohesive and it actually says something. Because when you have a film that has too many things to say, it ends up saying nothing. And I've always felt that um long form documentary is a wonderful forum to really get into a subject and explore the ideas and the feelings and the the themes that come out of it. And um, you know, I think in in general, when you when you stay focused on a story, it allows you to really um develop themes and understand the nuances of something. And um that I I I I s really feel that that the role of documentary in our world is to get into one subject to um a certain depth so that you know it makes our world just a little better place.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. I love it when you uh start with the film and then it takes you uh right it w into so much depth and so many so much information on that subject matter. I really appreciate that about docs. Because actually it's we don't have um the type of news that we're used to. We don't have anyone giving us in-depth stories anymore. It's up to you uh as a documentary filmmaker to bring us that kind of in-depth information. So um what which brings me to how did you find the swimmers and what made you decide to devote so much time to make Touch the Wall?
SPEAKER_02Well, interestingly, um uh with Grant, I was we were working on a different film, um, a film about wine, um, that I was particularly interested in, and was you were trying to get at the the sort of this mysterious nature of wine and why it's why it's so wonderful. I uh so we were shooting up in Paso Robles and Santa Barbara and I was looking for the story, and I don't feel like I ever really got like the kernel of the film. Um and then um Grant's mother uh was working with Dick Franklin, Missy Franklin's dad, on a um an environmental adventure or venture, and uh and so Dick Franklin met Grant and said um we we had made a short together, Grant and I, and he he showed Dick the short, and Dick Franklin said, Hey, you should make a film about my daughter. She's a swimmer and she's really good. And uh Grant came back to me and said and told me this, and I thought, yeah, I don't know, man. I I really don't want to be spending a whole lot of time with a teenager who might be a good swimmer. I don't I don't know. And then so he actually went out to Colorado first, did shot a little bit of Missy in the pool, and then came back to me and showed me, and then and then he actually's like, dude, we we're going. So he he bought a plane ticket. We went out there and I got to see Missy and her family, and um they realized like, oh, this person could be special. And then so we started shooting a little bit and exploring the subject, and then we realized like, oh wow, this uh this could be a really interesting story. Missy could be quite good. Um, and uh but but you know what it it again, this is like a a a story that seemed to have these other things to it. So Missy Young Sports prodigy prodigy um had these two wonderful parents. She's an only child, her parents had been older when they had her, and they were raising her in a really interesting different way than most young sports prodigies would be raised, who tend to be driven by their parents, and you know, it's it's the a lot of times it's the parents living vicariously through the success of their children. And that wasn't the case at all with Missy and her parents. So I thought that was kind of a really interesting and unique story that that should be told. And ultimately, that's kind of what the film turned out to be is that uh, you know, Missy is like this very, very generous, um, truly kind superstar um who uh doesn't seem to have that competitive meanness that a lot of superstars have. And I kind of felt that we could we could tell that story about you know, it's okay to be really good and be a nice person at the time at the same time.
SPEAKER_05Um, that's so much needed right now because this is what so much so many films are about, the film connected, everything seems to be going towards the fact that we are all connected and uh that in truth we came here to support and nurture each other, and then we got caught in this society that says no, you have to compete and be stronger and better. And yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so I can I just interestingly, I I think that um when the film came out it it uh it kind of took some of the critics by surprise because I uh uh we had a couple early reviews of New York um critics who looked at the film and their re reviews were basically like this is not an Olympic film. Where's the struggle? Where's like all the tension and the you know and it that that wasn't the film, that was never gonna be the film, and there are elements of of struggle and tension in any film, um, but that it wasn't gonna be about you know these two sort of slugging it out in the trenches. And um so uh which is a way of saying that I don't think that the film community was ready to see a film about with strong female characters um who could give some an inspiring message. You know, they're looking for a film with a lot more struggle or underserved communities, you know, it was interesting, but it was frustrating.
SPEAKER_05Right, right. Well, what made you want to do uh to independently produce Touch the Wall?
SPEAKER_02So that's that was a a big question. I mean um I I might be a little bit of a control freak, but but uh it really did come down to um Grant and I felt a real responsibility to the story and to um Missy and her parents and then and then when Kara came on the film to Kara um to uh be true to the story and not let some other producer come in and and I don't want to say corrupt the story, but sort of bend the story just you know in some other way. And we did we had a couple offers of people, um producers, big time producers who wanted to come in and essentially sort of take over the film from us and they would have paid us and bought us out and uh um I think we both felt like that was one not the way to make a good film, two, it would be a disservice to the people in the film, and three, not just a disservice to the the themes of the film. Um and we also and then lastly, we kind of felt that we could um make uh a better living if we actually saw it all the way through. Wonderful.
SPEAKER_05So those are good reasons.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, I know. Well that's always the challenge, right?
SPEAKER_05Well, and no, it is a major uh decision. Uh when someone comes along and says, uh you've got a good idea there, let us buy it, that that would be wonderful. You could go out and find something else, because that obviously you're talented in that. But uh so to take the risk, you didn't know if she was gonna win all these awards. You took a big risk there, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's not a good business plan to make films this way. It's a much better business plan to do a sure thing. But uh, you know, that's also uh that's also part of the joy of making films too, is you don't exactly know how the the film's gonna end, but you kind of you have to have a faith that no matter how the film turns out, you'll find a story. And in film school, um we were shown a film called Waiting for Fidel. I don't know if you know this film. The story of a couple filmmakers who went to Cuba, this is probably in the 70s, to interview Fidel Castro. And they um kept getting put off, you know, it's like Fidel can't meet with you today, and so they just and the next day was the same story, the next day the same story. So they just went around Cuba and started talking to Cubans. And so they made this wonderful film about Cuba w wh you know, while they were waiting to do what they really meant to do. Um it's just kind of an example of you you kind of go with the flow, and sometimes the story is not where you expect it to be. Um if you're open to finding it, then it it kind of reveals itself to you.
SPEAKER_05Right. Exactly. Well um on that note I will say that um Hitchcock said the um on the in the feature the director is God, but in a documentary, God is the director. I guess what we're talking about is very true, isn't it?
SPEAKER_06That feels very true, yeah. Yeah, it's really true.
SPEAKER_05Okay, well tell us about your Kickstarter. How did you create your fan base for the Kickstarter? That was a great successful how much money did you raise, Christopher?
SPEAKER_02We raised a hundred and nineteen thousand in twenty thirteen. Yeah. Boy, that was a lot of work, I'll tell you that much. Um and I I didn't really want to run a Kickstarter at first. I initially I I wanted to raise private funding, or I wanted one of these producers to step in and give us some a big chunk of money to finish the film. Because I knew it would be expensive to make. Um so I I kind of resisted that. But we Grant and I were much better filmmakers than fundraisers, uh, apparently. And um we weren't able to find the the private financing, so we turned to Kickstarter, and it turned out to be um a real blessing because in doing so we connected with our audience. Um and we so I I I followed a lot of the precepts of Peter Broderick and his ideology of independent production and distribution. Um and one of the things that he advises is finding a champion or someone to sort of happen along. So we early on in the in the process, we found USA Swimming, which is the governing body of uh amateur swimming in the US. And uh they over time they became big supporters and champions of us. But um so they were able to be marvelous. Yeah, so they were able to help us get the word out um a bit during um the Kickstarter campaign. And and then you know, once we would these Kickstarter campaigns, there's it's a lot of selling yourself and selling your project and convincing people that they should support you or help get the word out. Um and so they did that pretty successfully. And I was it was really interesting to see us go right to our audience instead of relying on a middleman, a distributor to find your audience, you know, which is the traditional film distribution model. We actually went right to the people who wanted to see the film. And then later on, a lot of those Kickstarter backers became our hosts when we brought the film out to theaters. They became our dedicated champions because they they cared about the project from early on, they had a stake in it, and they really wanted to see this film be done.
SPEAKER_05Because they were there to give you the fifty hundred dollars in the beginning, and now they know that you've done all this work and now it needs to be seen. So they helped fill up the theaters for you.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah. Yeah, so I mean I we'll probably talk about this later, but the the TUG model that we followed, um, the and I know that you talked to Nick Gonda a c a few podcasts ago, um, and Nick is a wonderful guy, and he was actually the guy who was sort of when I taught I was casting about for distribution companies, it was talking with him that convinced me that Tug would be the best way for us to distribute the film. And um for for those of you who don't know, Tug is an on-demand, cinema on-demand distribution company where you can bring your film to any city in the country, any town in the country, and Tug facilitates that for filmmakers. So for us, um instead of bringing the film out for a week in New York and Los Angeles and Chicago and and and Miami and all the the major cities as you one would with an art film, this enabled us to bring the film to um Poughkeepsie and to um a small town in outside of Chicago or Iowa um for a special screening, and it was these Kickstarter hosts or um ch uh backers who became our hosts in those screenings. And they were the ones who facilitated bringing swim teams in and and sending out emails. So it was a it w it was a wonderful way to to bring a community to a film through these hosts.
SPEAKER_05This is exactly what we want to learn, how how you did all of this. So let's go back, because you're you you did a Kickstarter and you used um what was the company that helped you, the USA um USA swimming. Swimming, yeah. So you connected to just one um well, I call it strategic partner, and they were s uh they helped you with the campaign. What did they do? Did they um post it on their website or send out emails, or how did they help you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean we we connected with them and some of the other um organizations out there. So there's um there's a swim website called Swim Swim. Um that and Mel Stewart was a very early supporter um of us. Um swim swimming world um and uh swim outlet became a supporter. So we we we s and um fitter and faster swim tour. So we we got a lot of support in the swim community because people wanted to see a film about swimmers. This was an underserved segment. There really hadn't been a good film about swimmers. So um through all these people, including USA Swimming, USA swimming's the biggest, and they're a they're a nonprofit, um, and all these other ones were for-profit, but you know, everybody is sort of swimming in the same direction, if you'll pardon that horrible metaphor. Um they all wanted to bring this film out, so they all helped us um publicize the Kickstarter campaign. And um yeah, it's always a challenge to get the word out, I will say, for for any kind of crowdfunding venture. And uh for the new film, we're we're we're working hard already, even though it's a couple months out. Um just to prepare for it.
SPEAKER_05A couple of months out before you do your crowdfunding.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for the new film.
SPEAKER_05For the new film. Well how did you find all of these films? What did you just research every uh organization across America and then choose the top ones to connect with the other?
SPEAKER_02You mean the organizations that we reached out to that that supported us?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah, this uh Yeah. Some of it worlds.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean uh some of it you just do a Google search um and just see, you know, what the top results are. Some of the some of the organizations um we actually met as we were shooting, so we'd go to some of these swim meets, and the whole swim community would go to these swim meets. Back then it was called the Grand Prix, and we went up to um Santa Clara in 2011, in June of 2011, and I just was I'd meet people, you know, you put on a smile and be friendly, and you'd you'd meet people around or you'd see someone and yeah. One of the harder parts about being a producer or filmmaker producer is being friendly and schmoozing. It's doesn't doesn't really come naturally to me. I'm I'm nor I'm naturally I'm a friendly person, but um, you know, walking up and introducing yourself and it's not the easiest thing for me to do. But that's that's what we started doing. And then there were some cold calls, certainly. Um but then people started to get to know about us too, because we know once we're out there and it became clear what our intentions were, I think people Um were generous with their time and efforts.
SPEAKER_05So when you say out there, you mean because you were at so many swim meets uh that they knew what you were doing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So we sort of w we established a presence and people knew that we were interested in making a film. It was pretty clear because we're there with cameras on deck and we're shooting two people and um we would get press passes from USA swimming so that we could be on deck. So it we became noticeable to the swim community. Um and so there was this a little bit of a buzz of like, hey, these people are making a film about somebody frankly. So that also helped too, because it's for a lot of these communities are very insular. Um, you know, the the running world is another world that that I have a little experience with because I worked on a couple films um about running that uh people are very serious about their sport, don't get a lot of media coverage, and so when there's a film going on, for example, then people get really excited about it. Sort of like you know, their interest getting its respect.
SPEAKER_05Great. So you enjoyed uh the uh the gawkers or the people that were there talking and you turn those into fans, really. Sounds like Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I yeah, I have to say, you know, this one world is also full of a lot of really nice people. The certain kind of person who swims that um they tend to be very sort of uh a certain type. Usually generous, usually pretty hardworking, dedicated, that kind of thing. Especially in the in the competitive world where it requires a special kind of sacrifice on the part of not only the the athletes, but also on the part of the parents and the support that those athletes have. Because it's you know, it's it's a lot of time and effort to go to these swim meets, even if you're just you know a local swimmer, you gotta travel on the weekends and get get people to practice at five in the morning. Rough. Rough being a friend's parent.
SPEAKER_05I bet it is. Right. Well, so you you did very well in building your audience. So um you get it by Googling and contacting them, some cold calls, but uh the rest was mostly being out there in that world, in the swimming world, and and l approaching people and getting to know people and I guess sending them to your website so you could get them on your mailing list.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so well once we after we had the Kickstarter campaign, um, we had to raise further funds because these films are incredibly expensive to make. And then um as we approached our premiere date, we um I actually brought on a couple people to help with outreach. One person who was dedicated to outreach and reaching out to the swim community. And USA Swimming helped us get to a lot of the swim clubs that didn't know about the film. Um, but we did a lot of posting on social media, a whole lot of posting on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, um, and that becomes um uh a venture unto itself to keep that social media up. And nowadays it's extremely important for filmmakers to be savvy about this and to know what kind of things to post, um, you know, what kind of tone to take, how often to post, um to try to get to try to get visibility. Because that's you know that the it it's great now that there are tools out there that enable anybody to make a film. You know, if you've got Final Cut or Premiere and a video camera, you can go out and you can make a film. The problem is that there's a whole lot of films out there and there's a whole lot of content. So for filmmakers like me, it's it it's an effort of how do you get noticed? How do you get seen, how do you know how do you introduce people to your project? And the answer is by a lot of hard work and a lot a lot of you know, just just working it and just working. Trying Yeah, try to engage people however you can.
SPEAKER_05Well, um Well okay, before we leave crowdfunding and go to distribution, can you give us some tips on crowdfunding? Since you're getting ready to do it again, it must be current the current in your mind, I guess.
SPEAKER_02It yeah, yeah, it is. So so here's what here's what we've been doing for with with it with an eye towards the crowdfunding that's coming up. One, every shoot that I have, every interview, we make sure we take lots of um behind the scenes footage, lots of photos, um, video. Now we're doing um 360 VR stuff. Um uh everybody they interviewed so far, I've asked them to give us a little pitch for Kickstarter so that so that I so you know the the the new film is about beer, craft beer, and I have um Ken Grossman in it, who is the guy who one of the lions of Kraft Beer, he founded Sierra Nevada, and he you know, I asked him whether he'd give us a little shout-out for a Kickstarter. He's like, sure, tell me what you say. Vinny Svilerzo of Russian River Brewing Company, these guys are like big names, or Greg Cook of Stone, you know, and they're all generous people, and they've been where I've been, you know, basically a small business owner with a startup, and they all kind of understand how hard it is to get a project like this off the ground. So they all say, Hey, I'm I'm Ken Grossman. Um I hope you support this film about craft beer. And I'm gonna put that on. I'm gonna put that on when the Kickstarter campaign starts. Um we're also going to I've uh my I have brought my editor in to start cutting together little vignettes. So we did this for Touch the Wall as well. We put together basically one-minute promos, just introducing people to characters in the film. So for Touch the Wall, we did one for Missy, we did one for Kara, we did one for Dick and DA, we did one for the coach, and it's basically, you know, they just super quick, they say something interesting, you watch them do something, um, and you learn just a little bit about who they are, and then the back plate says, you know, please, please donate to our Kickstarter campaign. So we're doing that, we're getting those ready. In addition, um my associate producer is going to start reaching out to influencers on the web. So influencers in the new film are bloggers, um, people who write reviews of beer, um, we're gonna start reaching out to them and introducing ourselves to them and saying, hey, we're making a film about this, you know, crap beer, this is our this is our slant, and um it's it's actually about homebrewers and craft beer, so I'm following a bunch of homebrewers here. So we're gonna reach out to homebrew sites, we're gonna reach out to craft brew sites, and just ask them, you know, hey, when our Kickstarter camp can campaign comes up, will you post some videos on your social media? And um, you know, social media is a really, really effective way of advertising without having to pay for it. Sometimes sometimes we pay for it as well. You know, I mean I do boost posts on Facebook and um and on Twitter and stuff, but a really good, engaging piece of video will grab someone in a way that you know no boosted post ever will. If you can get something to go viral, generally I don't know how to do that, but that's clearly the way to um to get the word out.
SPEAKER_05That's absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much. These are great ideas, and have uh are you going for more than the 119 this time, or are you going up in those numbers?
SPEAKER_02You know, I think uh we we don't I d uh I don't know. I mean I think we'll we'll ask for less because I I I just don't know the the landscape out there and I do have a sense that um there's a lot more noise out there and noise there's just a lot more projects and and the like and I've been looking through Kickstarter and Indiegogo to try to see how much people have raised on projects like this and um uh it seems that uh people have been raising less money recently. I I could be wrong about this.
SPEAKER_05So Oh, I think you're right in that. It was uh it was phenomenal back in 2013.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05It's uh there's so many campaigns out there going, and people are being asked a lot, but again, it's it's up to you and how you do your marketing and who you have on your mailing list. I find mailing lists do the strongest. You get the most results from that. What did you find that?
SPEAKER_02Well, we didn't have a mailing list. I mean, I I I we had you know, now we have a mailing list that's uh twenty-five thousand strong. Um but of and and that and I will say actually that part of that mailing list came from the people who bought tickets to our movie. Um so we probably had more than fifty thousand people see our film in theaters, and from those fifty thousand we got about twenty thousand emails of ticket purchasers that came through Tug. Another great reason to go with with Tug. But um when we started because I will say that there was a big difference between Tug and and the other people we were considering is that the other um entity wouldn't share the email addresses. And Nick Gandhi said to us, you know what, this is your these are your names, these are your people, these are your customers. You deserve to have access to them. Um because Nick is also a filmmaker himself, so he he he gets it, and that is invaluable having having people who wanted to see your film um who are really dedicated customers is you know it's gold. So but anyway, but back back when we launched the first Kickstarter campaign, we didn't really have an email list because it was just up on our website and the website was not that wasn't that good. Um and it was because I made it. So we couldn't send out these big emails. Um and I'm having the same problem with um the new film is that I just don't have a list. I mean I you know we're I'm going to here's what I'm sorry?
SPEAKER_05Okay. I just wonder if there's some crossover between the swimmers and beer drinkers. I I would think there would be some.
SPEAKER_02Well, I I like to think there are beer drinkers everywhere. Right. We do. Uh but I I uh maybe maybe some, but uh I I wouldn't sort of count on um a whole lot of support from that community. 'Cause the com that community is about something else, and most of our audience for Touch the Wall were teenage girls um and their parents because because Kara and Missy were such strong role models um for young female swimmers and young female athletes in general that um you know the the the stars of our film are the heroes to that audience. Um I i w it's just a difference case with beer drinkers because our audience is gonna be over 21, hopefully. Um I I hope so. I hope to get a few, but I I'm not counting on it. I think we're gonna have to look for our audience elsewhere.
SPEAKER_05Well, all right.
SPEAKER_02Well tell me about basically your friends, right?
SPEAKER_05Um how about your distribution plan? I'm sure when you because I I like to read Peter Broderick too, and I like the way he outlines the whole plan. So it but tell us what your plan was for Touch the Wall.
SPEAKER_02Touch the Wall. So the big debate was um whether we should try to do the film festival circuit or go right out to theater. So as we were making the film, and after the Kickstarter campaign we established this audience, we started um putting videos up on our website and we started getting a list, you know, we started getting followers through Facebook. Um and so by the time we had finished the film and were ready to premiere it, we already had a huge backlog of interest. Um so we instead of trying to get in one of the major festivals, the made to me that would be Sundance, Tribeca, Telluride, Toronto, South By. We um decided to um premiere the film and a film festival in Missy's hometown, Missy and Kara's hometown, at the Denver International Film Festival. And um, which is a great, great film festival. And um we so we decided we would premiere it there, and then eight days later we were gonna do another um special screening for USA Swimming at the annual USA Swimming Award show, which was gonna be in New York. Um and then but right after that we thought let's bring it out to theaters. I mean, there's people here who want to see it. You know, it doesn't it doesn't really make sense for us to withhold the film anymore. Um so by the time we screened at the premiere, and we had a we had an unbelievable premiere in Denver. We premiered on a Saturday in the opera house in front of 2,500 people, you know, all fans, swim fans, Missy fans, Cara fans. Um we had 40 screenings booked already through Tug. And um so we uh we we just figured alright let's let's put this out there and and uh what what we did miss by making that choice was exposure to the film community um and exposure to a more m mainstream audience. What we did is we served our our core audience, our niche audience that were swimmers who really wanted to see the film. Um and later on, I don't I don't know whether that came back to haunt us, but it was uh it was harder when we brought the film out to iTunes and um some of those other transactional platforms because we didn't have all the laurels, you know, all the the festival and prematures, you know, like a selection of this film festival and this film festival and um which people just kind of expect and distributors look for because if you've been I'm sure there's a value attached to it, so that if you've been in Sundance, you film is worth this much more, you know, if you've been in blah blah blah, this festival, this much more. So we didn't have that, and that that hurt us in terms of exposure. So when someone's looking through the the iTunes for a film to see and they're like, well, uh, who's this? Why if you're basically if you're not a swimmer, chances are you don't know. Or you're not a swimmer and didn't follow the Olympics in 2012, you didn't really know who Missy Franklin was. Um and you had to come at it through another way. So anyway, um what we did is we we premiered it in Denver, then we we had the screening the next eight days later in front of USA Swimming, and it it was important for us to have that command screening in New York because that it screened to all the competitive swimmers there, and it and and with our partners in USA Swimming, who were big supporters, and so we could kind of co co-sponsored this screening together. Um and it all that also helped us get the word out so that you know Jessica Hardy, who lives real close, was a was a big supporter of us, and um Amanda Weir, and so some of the other swimmers out there who were also who had seen the film and could say, Hey, this is a great film, you should go see it. Um and then we went out to theaters, and we should I just tell you the timeline here because it's you went to theaters?
SPEAKER_05You you did have a normal theatrical distribution?
SPEAKER_02Uh we did. We had a um uh somewhat of a conventional uh theatrical distribution in that we had a distributor who would book the film into a theater for a week. But they were mostly art house theaters, and the problem for us in that model is that at this time um Missy had enrolled in at Berkeley, UC Berkeley, and all of a sudden she was under the purview of the NCAA and UC Berkeley. And um UC Berkeley wasn't eager to have Missy promote the film. Which is a big, big problem for us. In fact, they were um very restrictive in what they let Missy do. Um this is kind of water under the bridge, but um that for example, they wouldn't let her talk to press at the premiere. They'd let her walk down the red carpet, but she couldn't sit there and talk to you know, the news outlets that wanted to talk to the star of the film, one of the stars of the film. So this was uh really tough for us producers because you need your f your stars to get out there and talk about the film. You need them to go on the radio or on the TV and um they Yeah, the you know, the the NCA rules are kind of confusing. Um in one hand they're extremely restrictive, and on the other hand the NC, you know, the these these universities and colleges are are making millions off of their NC their athletes. So very confusing, uh very frustrating, um, but it was that lack of publicity that I think um really, really hampered our conventional release. So with our niche release, with our on the cinema on demand, we didn't have to worry about that because we didn't need our stars to promote the film. The community already knew about the film. Um and and I gotta say, too, what you know, when you when they when Tug finds a theater, it's not a it's not a little dumpy, you know, second-run theater. These are first-run theaters in the AMCs and the United's and you know first nice theaters that you would go to see a movie at.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And um, and then so initially, and I'll just say quickly, initially, when we first came out with a film, um we only they would theaters would only let our film screen Monday through Wednesday, I believe, because they wanted to reserve Thursday through Sunday for the big Hollywood releases, and a lot of those distributors um and studios don't want anybody stepping on their territory. So a lot of those theaters won't give up any slots, any other slots for um a small doc independent documentary like ours. But we started selling out quite a bit in the beginning, and Tug went back to some of these theater chains and said, Look, you know, we're selling out your 150-seat theaters. Um, give us some Saturday screenings or Sunday screenings. And so um we were able to start screening on Saturday mornings and Sunday mornings before 1130, I think. Um just because of the the success we were having early on, which I hope has paved the way for some other on-demand films.
SPEAKER_05Well, that sounds marvelous. Let me ask you, how did you sell out? What were you doing here?
SPEAKER_02So, again, this is like kind of the the uh one of the reasons this model works so well is that um well we get the word out, um we would Our hosts, some of whom we had found through Kickstarter, were the people who were most eager to bring the film to their community. And a lot of these some of these these hosts were um swim coaches or dedicated parents, hardcore boosters. And a lot of times what would happen is that a parent would bring the idea of having a screening to a coach and say, Hey coach, why don't we have um movie night on Thursday night for the whole team? And that's kind of what happened. Is that you'd have a whole team either sponsoring a screening or just showing up to a screening. It kind of became a um practice away from the pool. A team night away from the pool. Watching a film about their sport and and getting inspired. And that it helped that the film was inspiring. So I've heard quite a few people say, you know, God, I gotta I never really had any ideas of swimming before, but I got to the end of this film and I really wanted to jump in a pool and start doing laps. So so it that also helped um bring you know, bring people in into the theaters and have uh coaches committed to bringing people into the theater. So great.
SPEAKER_05So then well one went uh I just wanted to go back a minute because uh earlier on you said uh that um w when you opened the opera house uh you had forty uh screenings booked. Uh had you uh done a mailing to your uh uh well you didn't have a mailing list. Uh uh, how did you get to those people and say, uh book a screening through Tug?
SPEAKER_02Well, so part of the problem with um doing something that's new is that you have to educate people as to what the process is. But the the you know the early adopters are gonna be the most passionate. So through USA Swimming and some of our other partners, we were able to get the word out about this new model, and the you know the pitch was like, look, if you want to bring the film to your hometown, you can do it, and it's not gonna cost you anything. Um and we actually made a video with Kara, uh the other star of the film, um explaining how easy it was to bring the film to your hometown. So we got that out there and um and Laura uh Aguirre, who was in charge of outreach, reached out to a lot of these swim clubs before the the premiere. So they knew about it, you know, and we would you you talk people through it and um so that takes a little bit of work and effort to educate people and let them know that it's not gonna cost them anything. They can actually make money in this with this model. There's a fundraising component. Um where people just you know, people just buy tickets, individuals buy tickets and um and they can actually donate to the swim club or the team. But it it was there was no shortcut to it.
SPEAKER_05We did a lot of hard work to make those but uh how many screenings should you have?
SPEAKER_02So theatrically I think we ended up with three hundred and sixty-three across the country. And then we had another 125 non-theatrical screenings where a club would actually rent the movie and then show it to their team and stuff. Yeah, and I I say I'm the thing I'm most proud about with those screenings is that we averaged 153 people per screening.
SPEAKER_05That's incredible.
SPEAKER_02That still I find stunning. I have no I'm not quite sure how we did that, but we had we I know how we did we had some very, very large screenings early on. But you know, this our first hundred screenings we had uh eighty percent were sold out. And we would a lot of times we would sell out early enough that Tug would be able to find us a bigger theater. So they'd sell we'd sell out a hundred and twenty-five seat theater and then Tug would go back to the theater and say, Hey, do you guys you guys have a bigger theater for this Saturday morning screening? And and they put us in the hundred and seventy-five seat theater and more people could go.
SPEAKER_05Oh, wonderful. Now, so when you say the uh three hundred and sixty-three three ac theatrical screenings, was that through Tug or was that through a distributed? That's through Tug.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, that was all through Tug Oh that was all through Tug, and then we uh beyond that we probably had another um I would say eight well we we had we were booked in another eight theaters conventionally. So, you know, how uh I I it's uh it's it the the hard part is making a differentiation between the conventional distribution model and this on-demand model, 'cause when you talk about on demand you're talking about per screening. And you know, you it's much more profitable for a producer like us to do these on-demand screenings 'cause one, you don't spend a lot of money on publicity and advertising and two you have a lot of people going to w this one screening. Um when you do the conventional, you know, you the film is there for a week and there's like there's not that sense of urgency and you're also competing with other Hollywood films on Friday nights and you know, that kind of stuff. Um and also a lot of people just don't know about these art theaters. It has to be the cinema crowd. And that really wasn't because we didn't get into that mainstream very successfully, we didn't manage to get to the cinema crowd so much. Um and I think that's probably why the conventional didn't work so well.
SPEAKER_05Well that's understandable. Um anyway, w what is so incredible, three hundred and sixty-three screenings, that's fabulous. And Todd took care of everything. They found the theater, they got your materials there, they booked it, uh, and then um you got the money for the attendance, you got the ticket money. And were you able to sell merchandise or downloads or something uh when they bought the ticket?
SPEAKER_02Well, that was that was a bit of a lack of foresight on my part. We um we were so busy trying to get the film done and and distributed that we didn't have merchandise to sell at the screenings. If I thought about it, we would have had the DVDs ready to sell there. What we did though, um, is that after at the end of every week, we would get a list of everybody who had attended our screenings throughout the country. And we would send out an email to them offering um a discounted pre-order of the DVD or the special edition. Or just give them, you know, fifteen percent off anything in the store. Um and so that way we were able to connect with some of our customers that way. Um to keep them engaged. But the the problem also is of selling merchandise at these screenings is that um you know, some of them are all over the country, and so to get merchandise there you have to put, you know, a box of DVDs in the mail, get it to the host, um, have them offer it there. Um and i w it's just it the logistics of it don't really make sense. What we did do though is that for everybody who hosts a screening, we would s give them like um a sample package. So we would mail out some posters, a t-shirt, um a swim cap. Um stuff that they could either keep for themselves or they could um give away at the screenings. And that's what that's what a lot of them did. Is that a lot of the hosts would be like, Okay, I've got a swim cap, okay, tell me, you know, anybody remember Missy's time in the the one hundred vac at the Olympics? And you know, the person who could guess it right would get the swim cap. And actually that was kind of a I think that was a pretty effective way to market one's merchandise. 'Cause you you have people can see it, um and they know they know it exists. And um somebody who didn't get it, maybe wanted it could go to the store and get it.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. Well, for your new film on the beer, will you be doing that through time?
SPEAKER_02Which is called which is called Brumance, I will say.com if anybody's interested in checking it out. So will I do it through Tug? It kind of depends. I would like to. Um it kind of depends on I I think on how the Kickstarter campaign goes. And uh I what I should say this, I I haven't finalized it, but I definitely think that we will go through Tug. We might have a conventional distribution at the same time. Because I think this subject lends itself a little bit more for the mainstream. And also I don't even though we've um allied ourselves with the American Home Brewers Association uh and the Brewers Association, don't know, they don't they they don't have the same kind of reach that USA Swimming did. USA Swimming has more than four hundred thousand members. The American Home Brewers Association has forty nine thousand. So there's a big difference in the amount of members that they can actually get the word out to. Um what we will probably try to do is to reach out to homebrew clubs across the country. Um but it's different too. You know, you're you're talking about adults with busy lives who who have a lot of commitments and I I'm just I'm not sure that it'll it will ha be able to have the same penetration we did before with Touch the Wall. I think it's gonna I just think it's gonna be different.
SPEAKER_05Um definitely be different, but I hope it is bigger than you think because Americans really love their beer. I'll say that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it's they should because it's uh it's an American thing. Craft beer is an American thing.
SPEAKER_05And there was a great doc on how beer saved the world, and it started back in the days of building the pyramids, and that the people who built the pyramids actually got paid in beer.
SPEAKER_02I I I don't think I have seen that doc, but I think we should all get paid in beer.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's great. All right, well, thank you so much for your time and for all this information. Oh, I'm our filmmakers are gonna love it. And I hope you come back and be on the show in the future because we want to hear how your um film progresses.
SPEAKER_02An update, yeah. Stay tuned.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, get an update and hear how your Kickstarter goes and your marketing because you really are breaking down old barriers with uh the new wave of marketing.
SPEAKER_02Everything's changing. You gotta you gotta swing with it and uh and adapt. If you don't, you know, you'll get forgotten.
SPEAKER_05You'll get forgotten in your filmmaking.
SPEAKER_02But there's opportunities there. Yeah, but there's wonderful opportunities there for you know, think a little bit outside the box, be creative, and be resourceful. And that's kind of what filmmaking is anyway. So you know, just extend that.
SPEAKER_05Just keep this faith. You said early on faith was one of the key things when you first started with this film, and that's it.
SPEAKER_02It still is. It still is. I sometimes you you kinda like just have to believe that it's all gonna work out.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I'm sure it will, because you you really have a focus. I bet when you get started, you really are focused on what you want to achieve and uh the film you want to make. So I'm I really want to follow your career. You're gonna do quite well.
SPEAKER_02Well, thanks, Mom.
SPEAKER_05Oh, it's encouraging to hear someone who's so dedicated to filmmaking. It's wonderful to meet you.
SPEAKER_02Trying. Trying.
SPEAKER_05Okay, Christo. So we look forward to talking to you in the future.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, and thanks so much for having me on here. I I very much enjoyed our chat.
SPEAKER_03Me too. Thank you. Thanks, Claire. All right, yes, and thank you, Christo. Very good work you're doing. All right, be well, everyone. Okay. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Now, in its second edition, Carol Dean's popular book, The Art of Film Funding, has 12 new chapters to cover all areas of film financing and how to avoid expensive pitfalls. Learn how to start with an idea and end with a trailer. How to make an ask for money. Create your story structure and your trailer, legal advice, fair use, successful crowdfunding, how to ask for music rights, and what insurance you can't shoot without. Available on Amazon under Carol Dean and at FromTheHeartProductions.com. I want to remind our listeners that David Rakelin is a brilliant and talented award-winning musician who scores films and can compose music for a trio or for a full orchestra. David is a very good friend to the independent filmmaker and comes highly recommended by From the Heart Productions. If you need music to help tell your story, please contact him at DavidRakeland.com. That's david r-a-i-k-l-n.com. And Carol and I want to thank you for tuning in to the Art of Film Funding. Please visit our website at FromTheheartproductions.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter. Good luck with your films, everyone.
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