Kickstarter, is it worth the stress?

Join diane estelle Vicari who raised $75K and learn how to create a successful campaign.If you would like to learn more about Carole Dean and From the Heart Productions please visit www.FromtheHeartProductions.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Love Hope Radio.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Hi and welcome to the Art of Film Funding. I'm your co-host, Claire Capan, along with Carol Dean, author of the best-selling book, The Art of Film Funding. Carol is also the founder and president of From the Heart Productions and the host of this show. A dynamic and highly intuitive storyteller, Deanne Estelle has worn many hats over her career and garnered expertise in all facets of the documentary genre, thriving in both the independent field as well as collaborative environments. Founder of De Temwa Films, short films with big ideas, and Doc Dance Productions LLC, she independently produces stories that promote the advancement of our individuality and global interdependence. Her past work, Sugihara Conspiracy of Kindness, about Japanese diplomat Chiyoon Senpo Sugihara, tells the story of how one man can make a difference. The primetime PBS feature link was honored with the prestigious International Documentary Association Par Lorenz Award. Deanne currently works as is her current work is Shadow Man and the story of Sammy Nastico, a man and his music. Sammy is a master composer, arranger, collaborator, educator, and Grammy nominated even at 93 years old. He is a true inspiration and considered a national treasure. And Carol, I understand that Sammy is the film for which Deanne had the Kickstarter campaign.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Yes, Claire. Deanne ran the campaign through From the Heart as her fiscal sponsor. And we're so honored to have you with us today, Deanne.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Well, the honor is for me, Carol, going from a student of yours to now being on Block Talk Radio is is quite a thrill for me.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Oh, we had so much fun in that class together. That was a lot of fun, Deanne. And you made it so. Yes. Well, thanks to you. Yes. Well, we had uh we have so many things to cover today. I want to your brilliant Kickstarter campaign, your company, D Tembois, and the short films that you're making, and in general, we want you to share your knowledge with other documentary filmmakers. So let's start with your winning winning that coveted Pear Lorenz Award. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Well, this was Pear Lorenz Award was quite a surprise for me, uh something actually never expected. Um it was truly Suggihara Conspirative Kindness was truly my first independent film because I could not get my boss at the production company that I was working at to take it seriously or even to want to fund it. So I went independent and I took it ten years, ten years long journey to make this film. Um story about the relationship between the Jews and the Japanese and really was to culture I did not know anything about, so it took me a long time to get funded, to shoot the film, to finish it, and then I can sell it. Um specifically because of the content, talking about a Japanese hero was a very difficult uh idea to pitch and sell. And um when I won this award, I was called by the IDA and I was told that I had won it and I didn't even know it was in, and it's someone that uh saw the film that had entered it. So I had no idea. And then I went, Oh, this is fantastic to be nominated is so great, but honestly, to win is even greater. And that changed the life of the film. Once I received that award, um it really was the beginning of being able to get this film on PBS. I really believed that. It it gave it a lot of credibility.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

Oh, I'm sure it did because everyone is after that award. And the fact you didn't even apply, somebody else did it for you. What a gift.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Yeah, I know. I mean she was on the board of the IDA at the time and she was uh on the committee, and sometimes what the committee does is if there's not a lot of application, they go out and look at films, you know, each each uh jury member brings in ideas and and I had had just a uh a f the final night of the Hollywood Film Festival at Premier Sigir at uh Paramount and she happens to be there. That's how it all happened. So you never know where it comes from. Never know where it comes from. That's in that.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Right. Well, that was a film that had to be made then. Well now let's talk about your company, Dietham's films, and what it does, and share some of the interesting films that you're working on.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

So Diet and Mois film really uh was born out of my own personal need. Um because as I took your class several times, uh one of the things that we learned is that we really have to create our audience. And as you know I'm working on two film parallel, the Sammy story and Nellie Toll story, and I needed to build my audience. So I had to make short films um for Facebook, for Instagram, uh all these social media formats and I started making them and posting them and getting a great response from it and so it it was m my own d my own need. And then eventually what happened is um I walked into a building one day and fell in love with the building and I told the architect that I wanted to make a short film for them as a gift, because they had just acquired this building. And we're trying to do something pretty extraordinary. So I made a short film called Read a House, um, which is a building that exists and and it's quite successful right now. It's a co-working space. And I made a uh three and a half minute short film for them and again it ended up in film festival which I never applied to. I was invited to participate uh to a brand new film festival which I knew nothing about and the film has been in magazines and it's been so for me the key is fall in love. If the story speaks to my heart, if I can do it, if I have the means to do it, I just do it. And then let the rest work itself out.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Wow. So you follow your instincts number one, because you know how much time and energy and creativity has to go into birthing a film like that. So three it doesn't matter if it's three minutes or thirty minutes, it's just don't get started unless you have that inner knowing that this is something you really want to achieve, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

That's correct. And sometimes it makes no sense. Like figuring out a few conspiracy kindness made no sense to make that film because it was a I met the wife who lived in Japan, who didn't speak English, I had no contact in Japan, I knew nothing about the Japanese culture, I knew nothing very little about the Jewish culture. So, you know, if if it intellectually I start adding it up, it never makes sense to spend ten years of your life making a film that you don't know if you're even gonna sell it. But it spoke to my heart and I just knew. I knew I had to tell it's kind of like a calling in a way.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

I just knew yeah. Well, um talking about the short films like the Rita House that you made, I I see them as becoming really important in the future, becoming more and more prevalent. And I've been watching some of these short three ten minute uh documentary films, and I really love them. And people's attention span is getting shorter and shorter, you know. So I think there'll be uh doc short docs will be in demand soon. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Oh, agree, I totally agree. And you know, they kind of always existed. Um when I was the chair of the IBA, we used to put on this program called DocuWeek, which would qualify film for academy consideration, and short was part of this. And they were always there and but there was there's no mean of distribu there were no means of distribution at the time. It's like, you know, um putting a eight minute film on television or in a theater um was not very popular, but now we have all these alternative uh access to screening film. And you know, taking a break and watching a ten minute film for me during the day is it's it's like very rewarding, especially if the film is good. Uh and then there's New York Hop, Hop Doc, and all these different streaming capabilities that really caters to short films. So yes, if you have a story and you can tell it in a short time, then I would say do it.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

Mm-hmm. Yes, I think that's right. And that's what your new company is all about. So uh because it's all about storytelling and that ability to tell stories becomes paramount uh when you shorten the time of the documentary, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Yes, and it's like um, you know, in in the long form you're allowed to put a lot of whistle and bells and build bridges and let the narrative breathe. But in short film you have to get right to the heart of the story. If you can add whistle and bells and entertain us at the same time, fantastic, but you really need to focus. It's it's forcing you to really, really tell a story in a very short window of time and it's a great exercise. Really a great exercise.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Yeah. Yes, it is. I think for filmmakers it is, because uh th this uh makes you focus on the story more than anything else. You have to have a really good engaging story. And so and the truth is some stories aren't worth uh 120 minutes of your time.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

I agree. Um when I watch features, uh, I would say seventy-five to eighty percent of the time I go, This is so fantastic, but boy, could it have been shorter. And you know, we're storytellers. Look, we're storyteller and we love to tell stories. But sometimes we get lost in our stories. We we kind of take roads that you know doesn't advance the narrative. So to to train yourself to tell a story in a short period of time is a is really a great exercise. As a matter of fact, this is ongoing approach to this long feature that I'm cutting right now is by creating a string of pearls of short stories and then string them together.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

Wow, that's a brilliant idea.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Yeah, because I'm good at it, you know. I mean I mean to think about cutting a a hundred and twenty minute film is overwhelming. But if I think of it of this little story happened here and this little story happened there, and just create them and then you know I can build bridge in between, move them around. Um, but that's that's my approach to what's facing me right now. And I know I'm good at it, so it's giving me confidence.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Yes, that's the secret, the whole secret. What now um see I think with uh that your new company is going to be in great demand because people and companies and nonprofits need short films for branding. So uh tell us how people could reach you if they're interested in that.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Well, I'm pretty much I have uh my own website, which is my name, Deanna Stelvacari.com. It needs updating, but it's there. Um I also have Sami's website and I'm there. But basically, Dog Dance Productions at D at Gmail.com. Uh anyone can reach me there. Or my full name, Deanna Stelvacari at gmail.com. Okay. I'm very reachable. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

Okay, so now let's talk about the film Shadow Man, the Sammy Nestico story. Where and how did you find this film?

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Well, again, um less lesson number two, uh, stay open because this was an invitation that I got uh from my husband actually to come and film. He called it three day in the making of history. And it happened so that that was the same week as my opening of Sugihara in the theater. So my first response was no, my second respond was no, but even quit. He kept saying, It's only three days, you know, can't you get a crew? I said, Okay, so I don't even know who this man is, but I'll get a crew, I'll set him up on Monday, and then I'll leave and I can still make my openings. Um I went on Monday, uh had the four camera rolling, uh, with the fifth camera because it was in a big recording studio. And the magic was so palpable in that room on both sides of the room that I never left and I missed the opening of Sugihara. Oh no, I was scared. After all those years working on that film, that's incredible. Yeah, but you know, I realized it was time to move on and um uh not only was time to move on, but the subject matter was so for me spiritually uplifting. The music was so healing. He is uh you know, a life a life force that is so amazing that I decided this is where I need to be and I just stayed and I filmed for four days and uh I have incredible footage. And really that was the beginning of our journey for Sammy and I. Which was sixteen years ago. Carol, did I lose you?

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Yes, I'm right here. I'm just saying you you've been part of his life for sixteen years and that's fabulous. And you followed him around with your camera and gotten all these uh events that happened?

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Yeah, well he's when I when I filmed him he was seventy-seven. So, you know, his career, even though he this event was huge for him because it began uh uh basically sixteen years of very, very prolific um musical achievement for him and his career. Because from now from this point on he not only was in the shadow, but now he started doing his own thing. So whenever he had an event, of course I would figure out a way to get there and pick up the camera and follow him. And yes, I pretty much have been all around the world with him, to Japan, to Germany, uh when even went back to his homeland of Italy, which he had never been back, then shot it like a home video, you know, to document his return to his route. And uh I just stopped filming two years ago. And now just realized because he is ninety-four and after this Kickstarter campaign and the interaction he had on Facebook, the impact social media had on him, he decided to go back to writing again and uh I have to film again. I'm not done. Oh my gosh. Uh he's going back to writing uh books, you mean? He started writing again after the Kickstarter and after his interaction with people from all around the world because of Facebook, which you know, um he never knew about before, he had never used Facebook. We figured he probably was the oldest person on Facebook and Kickstarter. So every weekend I went down there and we answered questions and responded to comments. And um when we ended, he called his publisher and said, If I started writing again, would you publish it? And they were ecstatic. They said, Are you kidding? So he's writing again with one eye, uh arthritis in his fingers. I mean he's just it's taken him a long time, but he's doing it. This is fantastic. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Well, tell us where you are in production and what uh was the reason for running the Kickstarter campaign.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Well, because I had a seventy-seven-year-old subject who went up in his eighties and his nineties, I couldn't get funding, um, honestly, from the traditional uh way of selling film. First I'd get, you know, well he's not an American master, who is he? And I'd say, no, he is an American master. But it it was not it was not a role. It became very evident it was not the road I needed to take. But we self-funded the film uh over the sixteen years by borrowing camera, uh begging for mileage, but you know, staying in the hotel room, but we did it. And uh we got it, we documented it. And then I'm at the point now where everything is organized, everything is on drive, everything, most of it is transcribed. And I still need to do some interview, but I stopped interview because I wanted the narrative to uh be structured to the narrative to see who else I need to go get because there's so many people that will give me an interview on this. Um so I decided to take the plunge, and as scared as I was of um Kickstarter and V Gogo, I decided it was time to give it a shot. And uh I'm really glad I did. Really glad I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Well, I know it was a lot of work, but uh let's start with uh first of all, we recommended uh someone for you to work with who is a specialist on Kickstarter, and uh and you know, let's start with you having to learn and work with another person when you're a self-starter and a person who knows what they want and just takes the camera and go goes out and gets it. So having to deal with uh another person telling you what to do and when to do it and how to do it, how did you handle that?

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Well, it happened early in the camp actually it happened before the campaign because I did sign uh uh you know, because of your recommendation and having a couple of uh conference calls over the film with this gentleman, I decided to sign him on and I put my deposit down and and then things change a little bit. Um and I had to realize that as creative as we are as a filmmaker and as uh desperate we are for funding to continue and for me Chinese ninety-four. I mean, I'm against the clock, right? Um it doesn't mean that we have to go at it in um what's the science case? I mean we have to go at it in power. Meaning I've worked on this for 15 years, this is my subject, this is a very special um story, and really you're not doing me a favor, we're doing each other a favor. So I'm handing you a national treasure, you're gonna help me get money for it. And once you know, once you meet halfway and not one over the other, I think that's where the key to success is. Uh this gentleman was all about money. Uh creativity was well, it's great if it's there, but if it's not there, who cares? Let's go get the money. And for me it was all about creativity. 'Cause that's all I've done with Sammy for I don't put anything out there that I'm not happy with because it's his name on it and it's my name on it. So I had to readjust. I I had to make um an adjustment and um really think about how to go about this and how to include you know, bring him in into the the story and uh expose him to Sammy actually. That's what the first thing I did is I brought him onto a a bird day event. We launched with a bird day party and I brought him in and that changed the course. That changed everything. Once he was in the room with my subject and realized um you know, who he is and the love that surrounds him, I think it's changed, it really changed uh his approach. And we we m were a great team till the end.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

Oh, that's fabulous. And I understand that your video on Kickstarter was one of the most watched videos. Tell us about your training.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

That's what I was told. You know, but I because I think he's the oldest man on Kickstarter. He was the oldest subject on Kickstarter. And we even posted a video of him watching Kickstarter. starter on the the watch him watch it on the um computer and I filmed it on my iPhone and we posted it and people just loved it. I mean it was a whole world open up to him at 94 years old. He had no I remember saying to me, how are you gonna get this money? Where are you gonna get this money? Are you sure you want to do this? He cannot understand the mechanic, I mean let alone me understanding it he certainly could not wrap it around his brain what was about to happen. And then every $10,000 he'd say oh I'll feel a lot better if you eat hit ten. I'll feel a lot better if you eat twenty. And then when we finally hit sixty he called me I was out of town and he called me and he said I don't believe this. How did you do this? I said well you're right there we sip it away you know how we did it.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Oh yes so oh you know it's shocking. Uh you know I uh all the years that you've been working with him and and you really have paid for everything yourself and finally to go out there and bring in the money and see it like a ticking clock with the money coming in on a daily basis, he must have been thrilled.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

He was I mean he was watching first of all he was watching the uh the pitch three, four times a day. His wife would send me picture of him sitting at the computer and watching it, you know and and then he would re he would go on Facebook and even though he couldn't answer the um what people were sending him, he would read them. And it's kind of like think about it, you know, you're ninety four, you just had a stroke, you basically have been pushed aside by society because you're an old person now. And the whole world you you realize the impact your work has had on the whole world through a social media. I mean it was just it's just been like it's been amazing for me to watch. It's been quite a gift actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

You didn't realize the uh impact he'd had on uh students because and we have to tell the audience that he's written a lot of books that are taught in schools right?

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Yeah, yeah. He um listen Carol, I'm the filmmaker and I didn't realize the impact he had. Uh you know I mean I knew how important it was 'cause I've hung in there for sixteen years but to the level that we discovered through this campaign, I mean I have a whole new audience I didn't even know I had, you know, that came. Like a build it and they will come, my God. Yeah it's a proof of it. I build it and it came. And um he has written over six hundred composition in school for school students that are published all over the world. So e in e like you said, you know, I just did my job and I did it the best I could and I send it out there. And you we don't know. I mean that goes for filmmaker too. We don't know the impact we have on humanity um when we make our film. We really don't know. I mean you know we we sometimes struggles and we don't make a sale and uh our film kind of live on their own somewhere but to to find out in one forty four days how big your impact has been has been life changing for him. That's may it happen to all may ha may it happen to all of us, you know, 'cause it's a hell of a way to exit to to get that acknowledgement. Yeah I did it. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

Yes he he's knowing what they think of him while he's still here and and it's through your film and your intent. And you drove down there and sat with him and did the answers for him on Facebook for a many days, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Uh from Thursday to Sunday throughout the entire campaign I was there every weekend. And actually now I have to go every other week 'cause there's been a big withdrawal of you know Yeah, exactly. But now it's okay because I have to do all these rewards and he has to sign things and he you know he wants to be part of it so I'm going down there on Thursday night.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Oh how lovely. Um now let's go over some of the pros and cons of running a campaign because I remember when you were eleven days from closing and you needed about ten thousand dollars to hit your goal and we talked about it and um and w it would seemed at that point like it was it we needed a miracle for you to get over that number. So what did you do?

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Well a miracle I did get we had eleven days left and w you and I talked um I think it was um let's see. Yeah it was eleven days before the end of the campaign and we were ten thousand dollars short. And for me was to to sound funny but for me at that point was to surrender. Um because it is a marathon, it's a day to day marathon and you as a filmmaker and as a storyteller, we have to be involved. We just can't hand it over to the moneyman. Uh as much as the money man knows about money, we know the heart of the story. So it has to be a b a constant back and forth and I had someone helping me and the two of us just fed him every day. We fed at like actually I would try to do it a day ahead of time that I would have feed him stories and posts and images and we would talk about it. He would ask me a question I'd tell him a story. And it was exhausting. It really was um I think we talked on the I think it was what maybe a month into the campaign. Yeah it was a month into the campaign. A month and it happened to the campaign and I was cried honestly I really was cry because watching that having that clock behind your head ticking all the time day and night is nerve wracking. So two things I did I surrender um I let it go. I knew I had done my work and I prayed you know I just prayed for a miracle and I said, you know this is meant to be, it's gonna be my biggest fear was for Sammy more than me. I knew I could handle a campaign that wouldn't succeed. I just didn't want to do that to him. Uh 'cause his face was out there and his name was out there and his reputation was out there. And that's exactly what happened. Because he was out there the little people out there did not want it to fail. And it's something I never counted on. Um it didn't happen because of me, it happened because those people would not let us fail. They just went and from uh being ten thousand dollars short having eleven days left within three days that ten thousand dollar came in. Wow that's incredible and it's truly a miracle. So now we had eight days left we had reached our goal and we needed to we decided to do two stretch goal and again the same thing happened and I wouldn't watch it. I would not look at the numbers anymore I'd just let it go because everybody else was watching. All I had to do is re read my text and I'd get a text daily from someone that say you're so close you did this you did that so I wouldn't watch it and I would let Howard do all the work. Uh I would keep feeding him you know post. Annie and I actually would come up with some ideas about what was his audience. So now I knew he had the pulse of the audience and he really got into it. Um and we just let we just I just let it go because if I had I couldn't force it um I would have driven myself crazy.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

No. This is where you used your power which is your artistic power to connect Sammy to the people on your Thursday through Sunday chatting online. That must have done it. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah. And we didn't stop we just till the end. I mean now we took a long break and we kind of are starving them in a way but um because they're saying hey we haven't heard from you are you okay? So I have to do a close and let everybody know that we're just so deep into fulfilling rewards and interviewing assistant editor and you know it's it's um taking a break in terms of social media. But we'll get back on it again.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

Um Right well I'm be because running this can these campus is so stressful, how did you calm yourself down to focus?

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Well I have um I have a rich uh a routine that I do actually it was a short film I made called um vessel building and vessel building is simply like a 15 to 20 minute energy regimen that balances my chakra that clears blockage uh in my meridian and it stretches my muscles. And I meditate um or you can call it pray or you know and I try to do it consciously meaning that I don't wait till I'm sitting somewhere on a chair to close my eyes because when I did that it never happened. So now I try to like catch even a minute at the market just still myself, you know, just observing, breeding deep and that's what I did. I was when I reached my goal actually the first goal um I was standing in the pouring rain waiting for my granddaughter to come out of school and it was so cold. And my phone and I was breeding and I was meditating to calm myself down because I I thought I had gotten there late and I wasn't late and I had time to wait. So I just kind of centered myself and uh planted my feet on the ground and started breathing deep and then my phone started beeping and there was all these red balloons that were coming out of it and I c I couldn't even figure out what this was. Like what is this red red balloon? My husband sending me red balloons 'cause he was watching the clock more than I was and let me know that we had reached our goal, you know so and I was in the porn rain. I had an umbr and how often does it rain in LA, right? And I thought wow it's just you know it's just dripping money. Money's just dripping on me which is just catch it. Just catch it wonderful one I I'd be more than happy to share that with people. There's a link where you can actually there's a beta um link right now. We're not a hundred percent finished with the piece but he released a beta um trial that is on uh on the internet right now that I'd be more than happy to share.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

Oh great okay good now tell me I know you wanted the funds to edit. Are you starting to edit with the funds because I know it wasn't enough for your original budget.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Yeah so yes so you know we have all these points where we think we've arrived and it's happened to me many times during my career. It's like oh I finally made it and that was my reaction when the Kickstarter ended was oh I finally made it now I can edit and I start calling editors and got two that were very excited and met with them and then I started doing my budget because the reality of it is even though you raise seventy five you don't get seventy five because there's fees uh to be paid. There's credit card fees and there's PayPal fees and there's um you know um this gentleman had a fee as well and I mean there's many things that have to be paid before and then there's the reward that you have to create, produce and ship. And I have five hundred and eleven donors that have taken reward so it's quite a task. So by the time I I'm getting done I'm realizing I could hire an editor now and go for three months. And then what? Then I'm out of money, I don't have a film and I have to start fundraising again and God knows if this editor will be available uh when I've got the money. So I was highly highly advised um by a man named Doug Doug Block, the L O C K who I met with last weekend at the um Duck Camp Oregon and we spent half an hour together and he he's a consultant for film and you know and helps filmmaker and he said you don't want to hire an editor now and I said why not? Why not? I'm ready and we went through and I got oh my God I never thought of it. I never thought of the fact that you know I'm gonna run out really fast and I won't even have a final product. I may have maybe a rough twenty minutes but that's it. So I shifted gear and I'm hiring an assistant editor that's gonna come in I don't edit by the way. So for me editing is it's not something that I do myself and it's something I want to do. This is where I stop. Um so I hire an assistant editor it's gonna come in two days a week and in the meantime the three other days I am gonna delve into sixteen years of footage which I don't remember what I shot sixteen years ago. I don't remember what I shot ten years ago. I know the event but I don't know what I have. Right because I've been so busy acquiring it and even when we digitized it, you know, we put it into the machine and it just digitized around through the drive we actually did not watch everything. So I'm gonna spend the next three months uh looking at all the footage with the help of this young lady who's fantastic and we're gonna start uh watering it down uh into really the the meat, the heart of the story and building short sequence short stories. Yeah. And go back into fundraising.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

Go back into fundraising yes get back out there get the rest of the funds because the people know you now they trust you. You're gonna send them all the rewards they got and and start all over again. Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

That's right yeah that's correct. And you know it was a safe number the number was not uh designed by me. I knew that I couldn't deliver finished film with the money that we've raised uh it was Howard's decision to go for sixty one thousand we end up with seventy five uh but it was his advice and since he was the moneyman I trusted him even though I knew that that would not get us where where I need to be in the end but um it's more than I had when I started let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Oh it's wonderful yes and yes well now you have all that experience knowledge confidence and assurance and you have found your market so to f to go back for the rest of the money will be it's a I know it's more work but that's what has to be done. I think had you set the goal for what you really needed you might not have reached it because uh in 44 days that you this is truly a miracle from going from a small group is all you had in the very beginning. You didn't have a large database so you you've done a marvelous job.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

We had uh we had built uh on our own on my own I had built a following of three thousand some people on Facebook by the time the campaign was done we're close now to seven thousand so we're close to yeah we close we're basically have doubled our audience our our followers on Facebook, you know and um that's quite a lot because what happened is it's worth and now I'm still getting people saying I just found out about your campaign, can I still donate? Uh it's not it's not as you know, they're not as fast to donate and they're not as quick to respond because there's no deadline but I still get communication saying, you know, I can't believe I missed this. Can we still donate? Can I participate? Um and I say yes please do.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

This is fantastic. Well in all after all of this with Kickstarter um do you think it was worth it? I mean I know there was a lot of work involved but based on the rewards and the work and everything looking back, what do you think? Would you advise filmmakers to do this?

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Yes, absolutely. Um you know i the the beauty of it is that um you can set your time you can set the amount of time you can set how much you want to raise and um get your subject involved if you can you know f connect this subject to the audience. Now if it's a historical film there's i there's a different approach but if you have a subject and this is what the key was for us is that we connected Sammy to his audience and his audience directly to him. So there was no middleman for them to access him. You know I mean I got people in Russia that have never had the chance to talk to the maestro directly and now there's communication through Facebook. As much as there's so much controversy about Facebook, I mean it's it's an incredible uh tool to use when use well. And uh any staying in communication with them. Not as like I said not not as often now but because that could be a full time job for me.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

Oh but what how rewarding that must be for you to see him reconnect, come back to life, s realize that life isn't over. He's got more to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

He used to say to me the last two years, you know, I can't stop dreaming about music and I kept saying well that means that you're supposed to write again he goes no I'm done. I'm retired. I I've written everything I'm supposed to write. I said but you're hearing music he says I can't get I can't get away from it. I said well then you're not done. You're not finished. There's something else you need to say. There's why I keep telling him about you know reminding him about Amatius when he was on his dead bed writing still writing music you know I said you've got to finish it. You're not finished yet and uh I mean just the fact that he's writing again to me is just it's incredible at 94. It's just incredible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

Well we're gonna switch films now because I I also love the other film that you're working on, Nellie. So tell us a bit about Nellie and the and the NEH grant that you just applied for so Nellie Nellie Toll Dr.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

Nellie Toll um is someone who approached me again it's not something I seek. She saw Sakehara Conspiracy of kindness in Florida at a at a museum down there and she contacted me in uh in 2005 and wanted uh wanted me to consider telling her story and I basically said no no no not making anymore Fanny there so I was not really interested in taking on another film but she insisted and sent me her book called Behind the Secret Window and it's basically the story of uh if you can imagine Anne Frank uh in in hiding during World War II except she was alone with her mom and for 18 months at the age of ten she um was hiding in a window cell for 18 months. And during that time she kept a diary, a la Anne Frank but she also created a body of sixty four watercolor of an imaginary world. And that's how they kept her quiet. She painted but any event that would happen that would scare her would overwhelm her or death would be at the door she would turn it into an imaginative story of totally the opposite. And I think she created it and it helped her survive. She's still alive she's now eighty five and uh after I read the book I saw it I saw the book like in in an IMAX story. I wanted to do an IMAX film. That was my first reaction 'cause in two thousand and six is the only language uh I could use to express how I wanted in this film. So the film now is turned into a nine minute segment, free, three minute film, again short film that travels with an exhibit of Nellie's work. And now we just apply for an NEH grant to do a virtual reality um segment, a prototype of virtual reality that would travel to the kids, to the school, to the homeless shelters, to hospitals to give kids the ability to imagine a better world for themselves no matter their circumstances. Wow so we have NEH yes yes and that's what it did for me uh even though the backdrop was The Holocaust, um her story is so triumphant, it's such a triumph of the human spirit that this is what I wanted to promote. And um the NEH just put out a grant application for uh research. One is research, one is prototype, and the last one is production. So we're we have done the research because we've got the traveling exhibit, we've got nine minutes of film, uh we ha we won best exhibition in the state of Ohio, we won the best educational uh program in the state of Ohio two years in a row. So it's it's a winning combination, but it's I had to really think outside the box to make this one happen because again nobody wanted to hear about a film about the Holocaust. Or what I got to was, oh, you know, you'll get funded. So uh you'll get funded. You know, people have not wanted to invest. It's like, oh yeah, she'll get funded for this. The film about the Holocaust, but it's not, it really isn't. It's really an art piece and a a story of the imagination. Yeah. So we've applied for the prototype, uh, which is the middle one. It's a hundred thousand dollar grant. Um you know, which you have to match. So we have to bring it down because we didn't think we could match a hundred thousand, so we br brought it down. And if we create the prototype and start traveling it, we got a bookmobile that's gonna take on the VR. We partner with a lot of different associations and then we can apply for the production grant next year.

SPEAKER_05 45:36

Brilliant so we can yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:38

But now why why VR? Why virtual reality for this film? Explain that to us.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Okay, so the statistics are that um seventy six percent of children in this country never go to a museum. Or it's financial, it's uh time constrained, it's it's many reasons. As you know, the arts are being defunded slowly but surely uh around the country. So I think we need to have alternative way of bringing the arts to young people. If it's music, if it's if it's painting, if it's imagining, if it's reading. So we got um how about we put the kids in Nelly's apartment? It's a lesson of history directly for them to be put in nineteen forty five, World War II time. It's a lesson of hist we put them into our ability to imagine and paint. So it's a story of hope for them, it's a story of starting to provocate their imagination, to use it in any way they can. It doesn't have to be painting, you know, she tells them to write, uh, write their story every day or uh talk to someone about their story. Uh i it's it's a lesson, it's less it's a very well rounded lesson for uh young people to have access to something that they may not have access to. And VR travels with a computer and a h instead of, you know, a goggles. And we'll test it in the state of Ohio with the bookmobile that goes from school to school and then hopefully we'll we'll mass produce it to to reach to other states.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

So the children would be in the little bitty space that she was in.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Yes, they'll be in the apartment, they'll be in the confinement of the apartment that she was in and but then they will also and they'll once that realization is you know, that that space is created, they're immersed into that space, then we will put them into her imagination and their storytelling. So it's all going to be done through storytelling, but it's gonna be done through you know, beautiful colors and a child's voice they can relate to. Um and then they have because we already have the educational uh attachment to the exhibit, then the teacher can take that and teach them about the st the lesson of history. Um and c current events. It's not, you know, it's it's happening everywhere right now for kids. So uh that's the ultimate goal.

SPEAKER_04 48:25

That is brilliant. Um I can just imagine how many uh children will be touched by that and also just think of how you're gonna open uh young people's creativity with this.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

That's it. That's it. That's the goal. Yeah, that is the goal. And it does you know, and we'll have sh her book is still being um I talked with the publisher. The hardcover is not published anymore, but they said if we had enough buyer they would republish the book. But it's still available to Scholastic. So we're gonna purchase the Scholastic book and make it part of the bookmobile so we will donate the book to the kids after they have this VR experience.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Oh uh Oh my gosh, you put that in the budget then to buy the books, to give away.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Yes, yes. So even work with the publisher where they would donate a certain amount, you know, of the book uh to be distributed through school so if the kids are interested they can read the whole story. And I interviewed some s kid last year, she was speaking to school back ease and I went and I filmed it and the kid said they said, you know, it's one thing to read a book. Goes in one year and out the other, out of the other, but to have this person in our room that lived it. It's a whole different experience. And that's when the VR becomes very uh important because you're basically bringing Nelly to them without Nelly going anywhere. I mean let's face it, she's eighty five, she can go everywhere. But I will bring Nelly to them and her story to them. Instead of them coming to us. Like again, build it, they will come. Same pr same principle. And it's been a long process. I often use book in two thousand and six, so it's not like you know, it's not happened overnight.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

No, but perseverance really pays off with you. You you get a project and you're gonna do it for if it takes forever, you're going to do it and do it right. You know.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

And this is where the choice is becomes real important, you know. It spoke to my heart. It spoke it i it made me it my whole body was engaged, my mind was engaged. Again, it was like, Oh, I have to tell as much as I don't want to tell another story about the Holocaust, I have to tell this story. You know, so I it it's a calling really. It's a calling. Probably not because I earn a big salary.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Well, uh we don't know. We haven't we're not in the final act yet.

SPEAKER_05 50:58

Hopefully, it will turn it turn all this uh goodness back to you in many ways.

SPEAKER_04 51:07

But let's uh talk about um ideas that you can give documentary filmmakers on applying for grants. What would be uh what would you say are the most important things when you start to apply for a grant?

SPEAKER_03 51:21

You gotta start from the day the grant is announced because grant writing is about constant rewriting. Um, you know, write it, apply for it's first of all, they're they are so uh complicated. Every one of them is different, every one of them have different requirements. We uh we had a real um get real conference two years ago where all the grant the grant writers came to Los Angeles and we appealed to them to please make a standard grant application that we can all use, you know, once you've written a grant that we can just reapply to other grants, but they haven't done that yet. And each grant has its own sets of rules and numbers of pages and budget demand. So the key is to start when it's announced and just keep redoing it, redoing it, redoing it, redoing it because no matter how much time you give it, you're still uploading at the last minute. Um and they're they're complicated. I'm not a grant writer, I don't have the language or the affinity to write grants, so uh this time we wrote it with the museum because they have grant writer on staff. Uh and since the museum is our partner. But we had to write all the narrative and we had to do the budget and uh we had to feed them all the information so that the grant writer again can be um can, you know, uh assimilate the whole pictures of what we were trying to do. And that's the other thing is that as storytellers we're if we're not a grant writer, get a grant writer and work and w work with them. I mean there's so much one person can do, you know, and I've had a hard time wrapping my head around this before because mostly 'cause we never have funding. But sometimes a little funding or agreement with people can turn into a lot more funding. So um same thing with a Kickstarter, you know, even though I didn't end up with seventy five thousand, I have a lot more now than when I started.

unknown 53:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

So it's about partnering. Partnering with people who really can advance the narrative and the you know, the delivery of your film. And trust you have to trust that you've made the right decision. And that's the hardest part is to surrender and to trust.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

Yeah. Very good. Well, one of the last questions here is w what do you think documentary filmmakers need to do to sustain a career in the documentary film industry?

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Oh we had a whole weekend discussion about this two weekends ago at Duck Camp. Uh because we're all the same you know, the thing is we work in isolation, right? I work in isolation, I have my little company, yes, I have my clients. But we need to gather more often, number one, because we're all in the same boat. And meaning that we can all help each other and even if it's just moral support, because there's this period where you just want to quit. Uh sustainability means for me is and I've tried this where I've just stopped making film and went and got a regular job. And I paid a high price for it 'cause that's not what I'm supposed to do. Um, so I try now and Demois film was part of that. Is that even though they're more I would say they're not my stories, they're other people's stories that I go capture and deliver uh a tease that I'm proud of at the end. You know, just create uh other other things within your filmmaking that's that can sustain you. And that means sometimes taking a break, stopping what you're doing, moving on to something else. Of course, if you can get a distributor or investors to pay for your whole film, then just do it. And sustain yourself that way. But that's for most of us that's not the case. Um, we spend many, many years making film without seeing it's a salary. So you have to go out and create something close enough or that's we're storytellers, so how do you tell you know, how do you tell stories? Uh my first career was designing clothes and in Vienna was telling stories 'cause each garment I designed had a story to tell. So just be true to who you are and somehow figure out a way to, you know, support yourself as you're making your film.

SPEAKER_04 56:04

Well said. Thank you so much. Now tell tell us again how people can reach you.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

So it's my full name, Deanna Selvacari at gmail.com or Dog Dance Productions at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Fantastic. Thank you so much for all this incredible information. Uh we all appreciate this. And and I'll it's all about heart. This is all about your heart. You do things that you know y you would love to do that you feel called to do, and therefore you have the patience and the tenacity to stick with it for a long time to see it finished. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

And it's something that I question for a long time because I have documentary filmmaker friends who have turned out ten films in the period of me turning out two, you know. But also pick you know, and I go, What what am I doing? But at the same time, um pick subjects or I'm attracted to subjects that of long story and long journey to take. So Gihar was ten years. I've been on Sami for sixteen, Nelly is ten years. So I'm now in Sami and Nelly are very different stage of production, but uh you know, it's still a lot of years to invest. And um I'm not one that turns into two film a year. That's not who I am. It's just not who I am. So maybe it will change. Who knows? You know, with funding everything everything can change. With regular consistent funding, everything can change.

SPEAKER_04 57:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Yeah. So there's there's a future.

SPEAKER_04 57:50

That's right. Oh, thank you so much for sharing this. And we want to know about your NEH grant application, so you have to keep us informed.

SPEAKER_03 57:58

I certainly will. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Claire. This is an amazing uh format, by the way. Uh I listen to these uh blog rates all the time and they're really great.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

Oh, thanks. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

It was a pure joy to have you.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

Yes. All right, Gian. Best of luck.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

Thank you so much. Have a great day. Thank you everyone for listening.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 58:24

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Be well. And I also want to remind our listeners that uh we very much appreciate you joining us for the Art of Film Funding podcast. Carol and I really love creating it and making the latest information from the experts on film funding and filmmaking and film marketing available to you. We don't sell ads, so we rely on donations for all of the work and time that it takes to create this. And if you appreciate what we do and want to hear more podcasts, please consider making a donation to support us. From the Heart Productions is a 501c3 nonprofit, and donations are tax deductible. You can donate on our website. On our menu under blogs, you'll find a link to the Art of Film Funding podcast there, and that is where you'll find the latest episodes, and there you have the opportunity to make a donation. So thank you once again, everyone, and Carol, wonderful show as always. Be well, everyone. Take good care. Now, in its second edition, Carol Dean's popular book, The Art of Film Funding, has 12 new chapters to cover all areas of film financing and how to avoid expensive pitfalls. Learn how to start with an idea and end with a trailer, how to make an ask for money, create your story structure and your trailer, legal advice, fair use, successful crowdfunding, how to ask for music rights, and what insurance you can't shoot without. Available on Amazon under Caroline and at FuntheHeartProductions.com. I want to remind our listeners that David Rakelin is a brilliant and talented award-winning musician who scores films and can compose music for a trio or for a full orchestra. David is a very good friend of the independent filmmakers and becomes highly recommended by From the Heart Productions. If you want music to help tell your stories, please contact us at DavidWaythlists.com.com. And Carol and I want to thank you for tuning in to the art of film funding. Please visit our website at FromTheHartProductions.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter. Good luck with your films, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

When you're part of a military family, you understand support support. So American support is a person.