The Art of Film Funding
Discover the secrets to funding and creating successful indie films with The Art of Film Funding Podcast. Join Carole Dean, President of From the Heart Productions and author of The Art of Film Funding, and Heather Lenz, director of the award-winning documentary Kusama-Infinity, as they chat with top film industry pros. Get practical insider tips on crowdfunding, pitching, saving on budgets, marketing, hybrid distribution, and the latest in A.I. filmmaking. Whether you’re funding your first project or navigating new trends, this podcast has everything you need to succeed. Subscribe and let’s get your film funded!
The Art of Film Funding
Puzzle Theory is the Answer to Marketing & Distribution for Indie Filmmakers
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SPEAKER_01Hi and welcome to the Art of Film Funding. I'm your co-host, Claire Papan. Along with Carol Dean, author of the best-selling book, The Art of Film Funding. Carol is also the founder and president of From the Heart Productions and the host of this show. Ina Sophia Colo is a doctor of cognitive psychology and a linguist by degree, a film producer and director by inevitability, a script doctor, and a sharpie addict when it comes to storyboarding and distribution strategies. In the past 18 years, she's been residing in San Francisco, California, where she's been creating technology products and business strategies. Ina is the founder of Puzzletheory.com, a technology company that enables production companies to secure audience engagement, pre-sales, and distribution while the film is still in the making. The company is working with film production companies and distributors from 28 countries. The Ask Us Anything monthly info sessions of the company are open for anyone to attend at puzzle theory dot splash that dot com. And Carol, I understand Ina and Puzzle Theory are donors to your grant.
SPEAKER_02Yes, Claire, they are. Ina gave us a generous gift of puzzle theory for the winner of the Roy Dean Film Grant. And uh Claire and I thank you very much for joining us today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Carol. It is truly an honor. People around me know that I'm not really big on giving interviews, but I can't think of another person who has been so steadily dedicated to helping independent filmmakers truly from the heart.
SPEAKER_02Oh, how kind, how kind. Thank you so much. Well, we think that what you have is an exciting project for independent filmmakers because the film industry is the only business I know of where you don't know who your audience is. Most filmmakers believe they do, but they really have been so busy making the film that they've done very little research on who is their audience. And I even hear filmmakers find their audience when they're screening their films at festivals. But truly, you know, your audience will help fund your film. So finding and engaging them early is important for the filmmaker. So our goal today is to learn as much as we can from you on your brilliant new business. So let's start with what you think is wrong with the current way independents connect to their audience and look for distributors.
SPEAKER_00What is wrong? Well, how much time did you say we have for this interview, Carol? Yeah, well, I mean, I'm pretty sure that anything I would say here would not sound as a surprise. I mean, we all know it takes years to make a film, and then we have this very small window to figure out what to do with it. And yes, sending it to film festivals is the recommended way to find distribution. I mean, this kind of distribution which would help you jump the fans beyond distributing within your immediate circle. But, you know, less than 1% of all films from all over the world makes it to this type of festivals. And yes, let's say you're one of the lucky few, and sure, screening with festival audience that could make it on time for that specific day is something that can help you draw some conclusions about what audience thinks about your film. And let's say you get a distributor, and that distributor's goal is to move product fast. The faster they move it, the higher the returns for the distributor that is. In other words, they have a also a very small window to you know spend tons of money for PA and all kinds of marketing, deliver the film to whatever they assume to be audience, make cash, recoup their expenses, make some profit, and quickly move to the next product because you're already an old product. So you had your chance, you had your small window, the distributor had their window, and you know, in most of the cases, this is it. It's a blip in time. So we're all familiar with that. Of course, there's more to packaging and moving phone products, but the point is that every product has unit economics. It that that means how much you put in as time, money, effort, and how much you get out as recoupment of the time and the money, as in profit. So the effort to continue doing the same thing over and over again is actually worth it. So why the hell the film product has the worst unit economic than any product of any other business? You're really going blind to a certain direction, and when you get there, you basically do not get much in return. And this is not only about independent filmmaking, it's it's very often for the entire industry. Like, I don't know, more than sixty percent of the large studio productions do not recoup their costs. More than ninety percent of the independent films never get proper distribution. So these are mind-blowing numbers considering that the total spending for the film industry, how much we spend in production and marketing for 2019 was almost two hundred and fifty billion dollars. So yeah, I mean uh I don't know about twenty twenty, but I think we all want to scratch it here for it and forget it. It never existed. That's it. It's it's it's gone. So yeah, so um when talking about what's right and wrong, I mean, right and wrong usually refers to outcome. Um so in that sense, yeah, something is wrong in this outcome, but when something is wrong with the outcome, it's usually because something is wrong with the process. And and my answer is uh well, I think the entire system has become completely unsustainable. I think we've sort of locked ourselves in this truly opaque, um, quite pyramidal status quo that can no longer serve. Um as I usually say, I think the system is still the same. I it's a it's a crazy thing to say considering we hear about all these innovations and we think we do more and know more, but I think that the way the industry was structured, the business model, the rules of the game from 90 years ago, I mean it was not created to work for everybody, not maliciously so, because it was a new game with a few players, they applied logic that served them at that time, but it didn't change. So we started having these gaps and these balances. And I think this is the case also with our financial institutions, with the political structures, social structures. You know, the gaps are starting to become obvious. And how we can say for sure that the system didn't change after all this um innovations and new technologies, well, we're asking the same questions and the issues stayed the same. In fact, they accelerated. So I mean I would say regardless if the audiences are in the theaters near you or in the dining rooms near you, the system doesn't work because it has this embedded misbalance of what's right and what's wrong and for whom?
SPEAKER_02Right. Well um did uh what made you create puzzle theory? Did you have a background in filmmaking, Ina?
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_00So um I am not actively producing indirectly, but I still, you know, pick up on the project as a script doctor. And um yeah, what I started talking about was exactly that I sort of um wanted to look closer to the film industry and I believe I came with an extra eye to it. Um I'm uh as you you know mentioned earlier, Claire mentioned earlier, I'm a technologist and a linguist and a cognitive psychologist. I'm used to thinking formulas and systems and trying to pull the entire chain of events before make observation and a conclusion. So, in respect to that, as a technologist, I wanted to create a product that doesn't extract and disrupt only one segment from the industry without thinking how it would reverberate the rest of the chain. So I wanted to create something that takes into consideration the entire structure, something that's beneficial for all parties, for the production companies, the distributors, the audience. Um, from the psychologist's point of view, I would say, well, we've been made-believe uh what engagement is based on product sales, not on real engagement. The whole attention economy, for example, um, in which your attention is hijacked, some very basic emotional buttons are pushed on to take you to that momentary decision to click the like, to click the submit credit card, this is not engagement. Um, and that starts to backfire because we oversaturated it. So, as I usually say, what attention economy has been doing to our brains and our emotional health in the past 10, 15 years is what fast food did to our bodies and our physical health in the 20 years prior. So I wanted to build also a humane technological system which allows for real, deep, meaningful human engagement, the way the humans truly engage over time, with ups and downs, multiple points of connection, you know, with inspiration and curiosity.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that sounds wonderful. We're ready for that. Well, tell us what you find are the benefits of puzzle theory.
SPEAKER_00Well, with puzzle theory, you build your audience in the months or years while the film is still in the making, and you use this um the making of process, the behind the scenes story, as a longer runway to rally your audience. Um, we also build the tools to help you do that in a deeply meaningful, engaging way. You generate your own audience data, you get your own engagement analytics, you own them, they belong to you, and you use that as both, as leverage and an insurance for successful distribution. Um let me know if I you know need to kind of explain a few steps of how actually it works. Um, but basically, this is the benefit.
SPEAKER_02This is the benefits. All right. Well, uh, I want to share a story that uh you told uh in an event I attended, because I think this uh is really what gave me a clear idea that something new is afoot and beneficial. Um you told a story of a Swedish filmmaker that entered a film festival, and when the festival asked him to send in his materials, and they normally would get a one-sheet and uh bio and stuff, but he sent what he had created in his puzzle theory account, his story outline, his engagement with this market, and uh he had over 75,000 people who were watching the making of his film, and they were in 12 different countries. So the film festival was really impressed with what he had done. And they uh were exactly what you're saying. They were impressed and they were excited because he knew his audience. He was in entertaining them, they were following him and supporting him. So I'm assuming that this is what our filmmakers can do with puzzle theory.
SPEAKER_00Um, yes, okay, so let me give you you know a a little um sort of a visual how it works. So the production companies can register a film at any stage of production, any length, any genre, to be specific, the categories you pick from are fiction, documentary, TV series, or animation, and you give you genre tabs. You build your own making of film page. It has a unique URL. You can post the link anywhere. Um, you have different modules that give information about you, but basically you start curating your making of storylines. And the way you do that, you combine original pictures and video, original production shots and video with hand-selected content from your existing social media accounts and pages. So our proprietary technology, our pattern actually, is about the technology that allows for tagging, extraction, and aggregation of content from your existing social media. So we give you the tools to hand select only those most applicable pieces that you believe should be incorporated with your making of storyline. So you build it like a puzzle. Let's say you you know you progress in time towards completion and release, and you can have one um one picture from the first shooting day. Then you have that one Facebook post that you selected. We imported it for you. And that Facebook post is the one that people love the most. It was funny. Then you have, let's say, some little video you took, um, you know, your system producer took, let's say, with her phone. Then you have an Instagram uh post that you know belongs to your lead actress. So you connect via login credentials. So the different social medias of you, the production companies, the crew, uh you need to log in to do that. You you people need to log in, you cannot just connect Brad Pitt's Instagram. I don't even know if he has on, but anyway. So this way, the making of storyline encapsulates in time your most valuable promotional assets in one coherent narrative that can be accessed at any time, over time, and after the film is even already done. And it's up to you, of course, how much you want to tell. You may want to just tease if you want. I mean, you're the storyteller, we just give you the tools. So, on the audience side, the audiences join and interact for free. There's no crowdsourcing elements. We truly need a very low threshold for your audience. We know it's important for you that you know you need to engage them immediately without any barrier. So when the audiences come and they they can also click on this important social media asset, they can go to your original social media pages, they can share the entire page, making a film page, they can share separate posts. We already know that people connect to ups and downs, to blood, sweat, and tears, to real human moments, way more than packaged product. And we know the film package product is supposed to be in short synopsis. So that expanded over time, and time is the biggest architect, creates this very special dynamic. So different people visit and find very different points of engagement. Oh, this film is shot in my city. I know this cafe. Oh, wait a minute. Wow, this is a whole female crew, or like, oh my god, those guys are crazy. I can't believe they're doing this. Or even you may not like what they do. You you may uh we have this film, which is I think from Croatia, and I think she steered some sensitivity pot there, but people keep piling up and adding their film to her their watch list because they disagree with her. So that unique audience data and all this engagement analytics, the smart data correlations of who, what age group, what gender, um, all that data goes to you, the production company. So that also is the main reason why the distributors are signing up and are interested in subscribing to get that early marketability profile and to get the opportunity for early deals with you. So, you know, when you mentioned the um the Swedish director, yeah, I I mean it's um, you know, people uh we learn from the filmmakers, truly. Uh this is probably the good side of the technology world, is that you know, you can build something truly democratic. We'll build the platform, we're not selling services, we're not sitting doing contracts, cutting deals with you. It's open for big studios, medium companies, small organizations, you know, um, I would say one man show, but a one-girl show. Anybody can use it. Um, you can build your making of film page, you can be private. Um, and when it's private, you can just create internal dynamics, start sending to investors, to organizations, you can apply for grants with it. It could be public. Um, and of course, that already you know evolves the audiences and you're kind of steering that engagement. Um, we've seen filmmakers use it for team building. Let's say you still don't have the music, you don't have the sound design. You you again, even when getting, you know, your partners in crime, you want to show who you are, you want to show your mission, you want to show the dynamic, the cruel. You don't want to just, you know, ask for you know resumes and beg and pitch and convince and sell. Um, a lot of the filmmakers post it, uh post a link to their page after crowdsourcing campaign, before screening, between screenings, if they would spend tons of money on some impact campaign, they document it so they can extend, you know, give it a longer life when people come to see the making of a storyline and they go like, oh, you did this last month. They they can relive it with you. Um, you know, they share the link internationally, like with that Swedish director. He literally sent it to friends. And um, yeah, so very much to wrap it up, one can use um the core value of our product as having your own marketing, audience engagement, audience retention, data generating machine of your own, or you can use it as a tool to enhance and prolong the value of everything else you do. And of course you have to.
SPEAKER_02And the value of everything you do, yes, because it's all there for them to see. What a history that'll be, because the average uh time to make a documentary is six years. Yeah. So you could have wonderful stories in there.
SPEAKER_00Well, the story behind the story with documentaries is always a bigger story.
SPEAKER_02It true. And w the films that get the most attention win the most awards are this is a true story, or this is based on a true story. We all love that. So you're giving us the true story behind the film. That's brilliant. Well, you said a few things that I want to go back and get clarity on. You you said that there's something uh I guess you must fill out when you're uh uh in part of puzzle theory, that is what your age is, your gender. Uh it's sort of a uh identification on who you are. And then you also said distributors are signing up with you so they can see other films in the making.
SPEAKER_00Yes, correct. So um every so for example, if you build your Mickey No film page and you share the link, um let's say I am a member of the audience, I'm somebody from outside, you know, I I I I can click on the link, I can see the page. For me to browse and get engaged and you know, you know, watch the videos, I don't need to sign up. However, if I want to comment, if I want to add the film to my watch list, this cannot be anonymous because it will lead to the link. So when people sign up, we know, besides the typical email and password, and you know, we ask for the name, we ask if they want to share professional title. And younger audience actually is I know professional title, but um so professional title, city and state or city and country, and you know they indicate we ask for date of birth, we never revealed that, but that's sort of um our verification element. I mean, I I I don't think I don't know anybody with the name Angelina Jolene, who's just uh let's say teacher in Nebraska, for example, but we do have the the the the date, the birthday for differentiator for security purposes. So, but that gives us the age group. So we know the age group, people identify with the pronouns they um you know they they pretty much associate with it's he, she, they, and uh that that's basically the sign-up process. So if I would add the film to the watch list, you actually know, you know, that age group, this person, um, um, and from that territory. Now, when it goes to audience um analytics and engagement analytics, you can actually see to how many people, um, you know, again, by by gender, age groups, territory, how many people only commented and browsed around and watched your trailer comparing to my how many people added to the watch list? Maybe everybody's talking about you, but they don't want to see your film or the other way around. They just don't even bother talking. They immediately add it to the watch list. How many share back to social media and to what social media? Um, yeah, so so basically this is the deep analytics the company, the production company gets. The distributors get a little bit less, by the way, than you. I mean, you can share more than analytics, but we we kind of generate the sales sheet for you, which includes this um uh at a glance data, and it's mostly what they care the most about, which is the um the the gender engagement, the age groups, and the territories. Gender, age, and territory is what distribute.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_02Uh huh. Okay, that's good to know. Uh all right, now you may Something about platforms or funding platforms when you were discussing puzzle theory and how it works. See the the question is how do you get them from the puzzle theory to the uh donation platform? Because these are the people that really want to fund your film. Um some of them are. So how does that work?
SPEAKER_00Well, it goes both ways, and that's the beauty of it. So one can build a make you know storyline and you know, little by little start posting here, posting there to engage people, and of course can use that link to put it on Kickstarter or anybody uh from the the the smaller um crowdsourcing platforms or to work with individual donors, with individual investors, absolutely. And the other way around, you know, to if if one is to use one of the crowdsourcing platforms, for example, they're wonderful. We would love to work with them because um the problem, I mean it's not a problem, they're doing a wonderful job in what they do, um, but if they have their own mechanism. When you're asking for money, it's a little bit different pitch, right? You just kind of you're selling something, you need to close the other, uh, you know, the the member of the audience, the future member of the audience to give you this 20 or 50 or 100 dollars. Um so your pitch is a little bit different. You also have only three to four weeks to do that. I mean, with us, if you tell people, um, okay, you know, you can give me money in the next you know few years, they will probably be like, Oh, yeah, I don't know, I'll do it later. If you open up and say, you know what, this train is moving. You can jump on or not. There's a lot of yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of a lot of dignity in that, right? It's not I am not selling to you. You're welcome to come if you want. So it has this dynamic where when you ask for money, you have this, it's moving. Look at the slider. We have 10,000 more to collect. Come on, everybody, join us, do that. That's wonderful. Everybody do that. Once you're done, do not spam people, do not send them emails because it at one point it gets okay. I gave you $20, leave me alone with all the other films you're making. So simply give them the making of film links. From there, they come to a platform when they understand you don't want anything from them, and they can, you know, join you, they can follow you. But you know what? When you don't ask for anything, when you give it a time, when people feel they're almost making phone with you, we had those cases actually, because we have this button that says collaborate, and when you click on it, it opens this email window, and the subject is I want to collaborate professionally, I want to collaborate financially, I want to collaborate in other ways. So we have sometimes a yeah, we have bigger donors coming and saying, you know what, because there are people who don't want to give you $20, $50, they don't go and Kickstarter. But boy, if you are talking about something that very much touches something inside of them, yes, we had a situation when a family in Toronto, an older couple, invited a film uh director who was making a film about a ballerina that lost her leg. They were an old Russian couple, they had a daughter, she lost her leg, and they invited the filmmaker to a dinner. And she thought it's just a dinner, and then they're very, you know, she thought they're wonderful, and they wrote a check right there on that table for $10,000. So I mean yeah, open up to people, anything can happen.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, that's very important. Okay, so now how do you recommend? Let's say that that I I'm a filmmaker, I've got maybe 10,000 names on Facebook. I've worked really hard to that. I've got a trailer, maybe I've won a few grants, and and I want to join um puzzle theory. So uh first of all, how do I get invited?
SPEAKER_00Um, yes. So just really quickly to mention we are by invite only, not because we really want to check boxes and pick up names. It's mostly because I do not want to put filter for an appropriate content. Films have nudity, they may have violence. So everybody who's interested will get an invite. You can send us an email directly to contact at puzzletheory.com. Uh, you can come to one of our monthly info sessions, Claire mentioned earlier, it's puzzle theory.com. And you guys, if you follow me on, you will find me on social media, Ina Sophia Callow, I'm an open book. Um, so you you will see me posting that link. It always stays the same. It's always the same link, only the dates are changing each month. So we do give invites to all attendees. And in the end of April, we will launch this new option. When you come to our website, puzzle theory.com. Uh it says, you know, there's a link that says need an invite. And when you click on it, we are literally giving you one week for free to create um sort of a demo page to play with it. You get to know us better, we get to know you better, and after a week, when you already kind of created the page, we roll out the invite to you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, this is wonderful. Okay. So what you do is you start building your page. Now, let's go with what's in the page because you you mentioned storyline. I guess that's one of the most important things is the outline of your story, right? Correct. Okay, what's after that? What next?
SPEAKER_00Um, so after that is so as I mentioned earlier, you construct the story like a puzzle, by you know, pictures of video you upload directly, by social media we we give you this opportunity to filter and select from. Also, each post on the storyline has a time machine, which means that you can literally move it back and forward. You can you can really uh navigate if you decide that, oh, I just posted something, but this picture will look better two months ago. And I had similar pictures like that. Um also this helps a lot of filmmakers who already have a released film. We know what happened with the festivals now. People got really stuck. I mean, they were in the official lineup there with the festivals, and they still cannot get to audiences. So you can build the entire making of story backwards with the time machine. So it looks like you posted something, I don't know, two years ago. Um, a lot of the filmmakers like the fact that that was an idea from a director early on, that you can also mark certain posts with highlights. You can highlight that. So if the audience comes and you have hundred images and videos, for example, I don't advise you to do that, but it depends, really depends. You can highlight some, and I can choose as a as a as a visitor to your page, I can choose to see only the highlights. So let's say the 20 most cinematic or the 20 or 50 images that mark time really properly, like a resume. Um, there's a critic's input. So the page has different modules. Let's say you click on full cast and crew and you can upload a PDF document, you can fill it in. You can um, you know, click on text specs, you can click on uh release dates. So these are very separate modules, very easy. You don't need to think about the the font or the positioning or the design or the colors. We took care of that. You literally only answer questions. It's super, super easy and it goes live there. And it goes organically, right? Because if you're in it in pre-production, you probably don't have half of it. It's okay. The page is not gonna say, oh, they don't have release dates yet. No, it's just not gonna show it. So um, yeah, and you also have your own profile. Um, you know, we're a project-centered platform, but we we do allow you to to have you know your picture, um, to say what's your mission on this planet. That's literally the question to say a few words about you. And if you have a credit in one of the films in our systems, it will show on your member profile.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it will show you're working on that film as a producer or something like that. Oh, great. Well, do you also have something on the platform where um people can discover films based on the uh subject matter or genres or can uh can they find different things there? Is it searchable?
SPEAKER_00Right. So the search we're rolling out right now, we were pretty much trying, you know, to first make sure that within different categories we have enough films to not to misrepresent, right? You know, if somebody searching, you don't want to see just all one animation. That's kind of a disappointment if that's what you're looking for. So we literally were working, you know, that's why for the longest time the platform was by invite, because and we were curating and working with different organizations, with festival hubs, with film collaboratives to make sure that we represent everybody. So the search is really based by yes, you have to mention something, of course. You can't just say, well, you can say give me a films, let's say in um, I don't know, in California, but we literally say within the search box to to give more to because this is a better chance to give you exactly what you're interested in. So yes, you can mention uh the genre, the the you know, one of the main categories, and so on.
SPEAKER_02Okay. All right, so um what are the subscription rates for the platform? And tell me how how does it work over time? Someone that takes say three years to get their film finished or they need your services that long.
SPEAKER_00Yes. All right, this is a wonderful question because I put a lot of effort in in creating the the revenue model and the subscription. So um it is monthly subscription, yes. You pay per month, and the monthly subscription is related to the stage of production, right? We have this little slider, and this is why the payment is the sliding model. So you could be in pre-production, production, post, completed. And then we have um awaiting release and officially release. So this is six stages, six different prices. We also have two different templates um for the film page. One has less modules and less features, the other has more modules and more features. And it's not if you have more money, get the bigger one. No, uh I I made it so it it organically, if you're as I mentioned earlier, if you're in pre-production, you probably don't have uh still even the full casting crew or the soundtrack. You just you don't even have a trailer. You might not have a teaser. So, you know, save your money, start small, start with the smaller template, and you will go organically into the big one. Also, with the slider from pre-production to officially release, the cheaper stage, of course, is pre-production. Again, save your money because I know that your marketing budget is kicking heavily when it gets to the release of the film. So um basically, because it's sliding, and people can budget, right? And this is internet time. Nobody knows how long you're in pre-production or even in production. The audience has no idea. So you can budget, you can cheat. I allow it, I I constructed it, so even that's possible. So you can stay longer in one stage, then you can jump to the other one. Um, so I usually say and ask people to budget per year, and could be anywhere from $700 per year up to if you use the max and you don't budget and you don't kind of go, I want the whole bells and whistles, it will be probably $2,000 per year. And we don't have it's not a razor for the blade, right? It's everything that I mentioned, the data, the analytics, the different, you know, um, cute little features. This is all included. It's not like oh pay the subscription now. If you want extra, if you want to put more pictures, if you want more data, you pay more. That is not happening. So, and the winner of the Roy Dean Grant is getting free usage of the platform, top of the line, for as long as it takes for the film to be released and just basically forever. That's why it was very hard for us to say a number there. Um, very quickly, um, I think this is very important to mention. Uh I almost forgot it, but here's the important part. Once your film is officially released, you marked it as officially released. I don't know what that means. And once you've been in this stage and you exhausted every possible information and updates you can post with that officially released stage, you can enter in our legacy role. The legacy role is something that like $29 per year. So that means that you you're kind of done, uh, but we want to save this uh making of storyline. We want to save the dynamics. So with the legacy role, you cannot upload more content, you cannot post more updates, but the audience has all the interactivity. They can see the making of storyline, they can play the videos. For them, it's a life. And if one day, I don't know, if something happens and you want to revive the marketing campaign, let's say six months later you get a you know big somehow big audience following in Japan, you go, you know what, let me just restart that. Maybe I'll get a new distribution there.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. Okay. Well, all right, I'm trying to I'm still I my mind is back here on uh putting everything I have in your puzzle theory. So let's say I've joined and I uh go through my Facebook page and pick up the post that you said people like to see the ups and downs and the uh trauma that goes into filmmaking. Put some good stuff and some bad stuff and some shocking things, or is that what you would suggest you pick?
SPEAKER_00Um, yes, I mean everybody's everybody's different, I have to say, right? Um so um we have shocking stuff. Um the beauty is that as I mentioned earlier, time is the biggest architect. You have time. So so relax, start small, start, you know, put a few things while the page is still private. You have time to adjust and fine-tune. Um this is not Instagram. You can edit everything, you can move it around. You you actually see how the audience reacts to what you post. And and frankly, the beauty of the uh of the fact that you are opening up for something that a has a life that is constantly changing, your story is naturally changing because you're making something. Um, I'm you know, again, making a film is like raising a child. First you deal with a newborn that doesn't let you sleep all night, but you think it's perfect because it's yours. Then it's like a toddler, and you're not sure anymore it's really perfect, but man, this is gonna keep you busy. You need to make sure it can walk, it can talk, it stays clean, and you have to take care of it a lot. And then later you're dealing um with a teenager that you know you have no control of anymore, and it starts to have its own life and often goes in the direction you never expected. This is wonderful because that is the real dynamic people can connect to. The novelty of constantly sharing something new and interesting for you is natural. You're not an influencer that each time needs to figure out what you need to come up with, what to pour on their heads, what animals to pet and what to dance around with. You have it. You're the real deal, you're building a real product. And because you constantly receive data about it, you can learn from it, you can adjust, you can become better in what you do. I mean, just like we learn from our kids as well. So, um, yeah, absolutely you should not worry about what you're putting in, what is the pace. Of course, it's good to put new styles, but figure out your own pace and your own style.
SPEAKER_02Right. Okay. Well, no, getting that page out to your audience, what do you do? You just send out a uh an email message to all of your uh database and tell everyone that you are sending them an outline or the backstory on your film, how the film is working and being made, that you thought they would appreciate learning more about the film. It's not an ask for money, it's just an ask to get engaged, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes. So, yeah, that's a good way to start. Um, because you probably, yeah, you probably made some films before, even if you haven't. Do you have your own your own circle, you have people who already support you because they know you, or because you know they would support the the idea, the mission, the subject, and so on the film is dealing with. So this is a good way to start. And this is what we usually do when we post on social media. The problem is that we have no information who clicks on it, and we have no information if I would see something on Facebook and I tell my friends, you don't know who they are either. So you cannot engage them. So you kind of lose that connection. So, yes, start by um absolutely distributing the best you can because, from our perspective on the platform, we really don't know what your idea is. We have films that, as I said, keep it private because they want to send a private link to fundraise. Some people want to um, for example, distribute only to certain organizations that very much align with their mission and they want to work with their members. Some people want to send only to certain territories because maybe the film relates to it. They want to send to, let's say, South America. So once you start engaging people, the minute somebody comes, remember this is very important, and this is how it's different to a common website or to a pitch deck, for example, right? So once people come, they engage, they add the film to the watch list. We are taking care of the retention marketing. You don't need to send people emails. You can. You have your audience list, you don't have the emails, you have their names and you know their uh again, gender, group, um uh territory. You can select and filter if you want to send an announcement. But basically, if somebody would come to your page and they do something, we send them afterwards all the different um you know updates. We don't we don't send you know info on every sneeze. So we don't say if somebody commented. But if you put a new tailor, uh a new new trailer or a teaser, if you change the poster, if you hit a mark, let's say fifty thousand people added the film to the watch list or hundred thousand, we do that um you know reminder and we do it for the distributors too. So they get this fear of missing out as well. That's very important.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that would be. Uh would you even post this on uh Facebook, the link?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, absolutely. If you don't post it, people will. We have a button that says share on Facebook. You once the film is public, right? If it's a private page, they cannot. You can whoever you share, they cannot. But yeah, if if somebody they can post the entire page and they can post a separate uh post somewhere from the storyline.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so when you've been watching this over two years, uh watching it build, so can you give us any stories of how people created large databases using your puzzle theory?
SPEAKER_00Um, so I already kind of touched upon that, um, all the little tips of what you can do and how you can do it. Um, but um I think it's very clever. Uh you mentioned documentaries earlier. I think it's very clever when documentaries involve different organizations, you know, their partners in crime, and they do this um in in a very smart way. They're literally, so they build a little bit of the making of storyline on the page, and they would send to some organization and they say, hey, you know what? Um, you know, this is the making of story follow-ups. We really want to feature you. We think you're doing a wonderful job, let's say, in suicide prevention. So we we watched this video of you, we posted our making of storyline because we want to tell our future audience that you exist out there and we're making a phone with the same topic. Feel free to, you know, check on us from time to time, add us to the watch list so we can send you updates, send it to your members. So, of course, this organization is so absolutely flattered. They feel that you're not begging them to pay attention to you. You tell them that you promote them. So they forward it to their followers, they all of a sudden want to, you know, contribute somehow, or maybe they already are, so you can document that and share that. Um, I also very much advise to go international. We launched the product internationally. We're working with actually, you know, Claire mentioned 28, but already 32 countries. So you know, you are filmmakers, you go to festivals, you go to events, you go to film markets, share even with your colleagues. I mean, every festival I go to, everybody's telling me about their film. Well, just make it simple. Yeah, just say, hey, you know what here? So let me just drop you my making a film link. So once they do that, and once I'm on it, I don't need to, you know, look in what folder I put it, what it was. I just add the film to my watch list, and level theory tells me what's going on. But I can share to my friends. That's how we had also this um it was now in Digital Cam. We had this Turkish filmmaker, and she's making a documentary about uh Muslim uh male acapella choir. And you know, she all of a sudden has this big following in South Korea. I don't know why. She doesn't know why. She just like, you know, chat she chat to a friend on on like she met people online on Cannes. She thought I think, you know, she she made some connections with South Korea, and there you go. So now she's like, I want to achieve it there. What are they putting there? What's the social media they're using? So yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's brilliant. Okay. Well, now when you say um you've got 32 countries, d uh once someone joins puzzle theory like uh these countries, uh, they would be from a film festival or a f film organization or film di film distribution company, right? And then they could look at what's on your website, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes. So, you know, yeah, this is the different stakeholders we work with. Um Yes. With the with the festivals, the festivals that are working with us are definitely um you know, distributing the puzzle theories product and the project invites to their talent hubs. Um the festival is actually last year Berlinale the idea they had, um, or the person I was talking to, when we see that one of our films made it to Berlinale or like it happened with the Swedish filmmaker, he actually was like, Well, you want marketing materials, here's my poster, but here's my making a film link? I don't know, if you see something, these are my best assets, let me know. So they think it's a really good idea to start posting the make in a film link when you announce the the the lineup for the festival, right? Because it engages audience, it gives a signal to the distributors really early. Um, different organizations, absolutely, absolutely working with organizations key because it's very hard to deliver your message and to have this a coherent body of filmmakers that you want to support all of them. And you want all of them to to have a chance and you don't know how to do that because everybody's pulling in a different direction, everybody's doing their own thing. So very much by we represent, we have every film has this dashboard and on the background of the dashboard of when you're you know filming for this and where your data is it's it's kind of used to be empty with this wide background. So we start putting on this background film commission, film festivals. We advertise them actually for free, you know, different organizations. Um to to kind of complete the circle with the community, the organizations, the filmmakers, the distributors and so on.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's brilliant. Uh, because uh you're absolutely right. The most important thing to a documentary filmmaker for funding and for market market share is to create strategic partners, which is uh like like you said, a uh nonprofit who's interested in the concept of your film. That it means that both of you are working on the same issue, and uh so I have always I'm telling people that you have to call and introduce yourself. You can't start pitching your film too early because they don't know you. They and you have to create faith and trust, and that's exactly what the puzzle theory would do for you. It would a picture's worth a thousand words, in this instance it'd be worth ten thousand words. I mean, they would be able to see your dedication, your crew, your film outline, uh your story and uh your dedication, and that you are making a film. And they won't feel threatened. You're not asking for money, you're not asking at this point to share your their database yet. You're just saying, this is who I am. I'm making a film, and I think you should connect with me. This is the hardest thing to do when you are going after these uh nonprofits because they don't want to give their names away to you. That's how they survive from donations. But yes, they will refer you if they feel they trust you and they like you. So creating those two things is what your puzzle theory can do uh for people and it is a segue between the filmmaker and the audience. I think it's brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you're reversing the sale, so to say, right? Instead of you are begging and pitching and chasing, very often you give them the opportunity for them to feel that they are part of some bigger movement. You are the one that is around people. You're the one that, you know, are is moving things and people are joining you. And they should feel honored that oh my god, you know, she mentioned us in her storyline. Wow, people will hear more about us. Wait a minute, I see there's another organization. Well, let me tell my members before that organization tells their members we really want to support that film. So yes, absolutely reversing the game, literally.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and you're building a database for the filmmaker. In other words, they they can rest on their own laurels because that will show everything that they're doing. The good and the bad and uh how far the film has come and the timeline. And it's okay to be working on a film for three or four years because life gets in the way sometimes. You know, you have to stop and deal with COVID or restrictions or family problems. So um I think uh you have done a great service for independent filmmakers. I'm so happy to hear uh that you're being well received, that people love it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you, Carol. We are very, very excited. And it's also became a discovery for us as well. Um, you know, you know, working internationally and learning so much from the filmmakers. We're so tremendously grateful that all of those features, I mean we did our best to listen, but the features, the ideas, the needs everybody has, they they've voiced it in and this is when when you ask earlier why you made it, you feel so strong. You know, the desperation, how how things are you know, steadily being the same and they're not working and they're not working. So when you hear people and you take notes and you make sure you create something that benefits everybody and the distributors that we we we asked when we were testing the product were also absolutely helpful. They also feel that it's very hard for them to survive. You know, you go to these festivals and it's very competitive and it's I mean, early pre-sales are down the drain since a very long time. Nobody gets data into the industry. Everybody's working blind. Yeah, you you're right. It it can it takes years and it may happen that you need to sort of pause and put your life together. You're not making that much money as a filmmaker, you may need to take a break, but you have the data to learn. And you'll be like, huh, you know, I wonder why I don't have you know, the people of that age group. I mean, I wonder why people did not engage with that. So you learn, you can improve, you can adjust. That that's exactly what needs to happen. That's the power the filmmakers need. They need the knowledge and they need the surround, they need something to be on their side.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Oh, this is just wonderful information. Inaway, thank you very much. So uh in closing, what I want you to do is give us your website so they can go look and read more about it. Um, an email perhaps that they could send for any questions and how to get into your monthly any question you want to ask in the meeting.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I will start with there, yes, absolutely. So the link, which is not to our website, it's just an event page with a company called Splash That. So they allow you to go to your own um uh event page and you know get people to register. It's puzzle theory dot slash that dot com. And again, through my name, you can find me on social media, Ina Sophia Callo. Um we will also start a clubhouse um room pretty soon. Um so puzzle theory.com is the event page for the monthly info session. Um the best way to contact um in general the company is contact at puzzle theory.com. You can contact me directly via Sophia with an F, S O F I A, Sophia at puzzle theory.com. And the website is puzzletheory.com, as I said, I apologize at that point is by invite only. So you kind of it's a closed box. You cannot read more, but yeah, you can sign up actually. There's like a little mission statement if you sign up. Um and yes, yes, we would very, very much looking forward to working with you and thank you, thank you, Carol. I I really look up to you in everything you do. Um, you know, it's people who are there to to to help independent filmmaking because we all realize that there's something needs to be done. It really is time. It's time. It's time to start building a new system and stop putting band-aids on what doesn't work. This is this is about it.
SPEAKER_02That is exactly right. Build something that does work and it's there forever. I love the fact that you can what, thirty-eight dollars a year, some minimal fee, you can s keep your work online forever. Wonderful. Okay. All right. Well we'll uh believe me, we'll be calling you, we'll be emailing you because I'm sure that people once they get the full connect to the concept and the dedication you have and your heart is truly in this, Ina. So I'm sure I speak for all of us in saying thank you for doing this. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Carol. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02All right, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Oh yes. Thank you again. And also, Ina, I have to tell you, your enthusiasm is so contagious. It really does it really does make a difference in the work you do too. It does so much. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I that's a good luck. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Alrighty. Be welcome.
SPEAKER_00Bye-bye. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Now, in its second edition, Carol Dean's popular book, The Art of Film Funding, has 12 new chapters to cover all areas of film financing and how to avoid expensive pitfalls. Learn how to start with an idea and end with a trailer. How to make an ask for money. Create your story structure and your trailer, legal advice, fair use, successful crowdfunding, how to ask for music rights, and what insurance you can't shoot without. Available on Amazon under Carol Dean and at FromTheHeartProductions.com. I want to remind our listeners that David Rakelin is a brilliant and talented award-winning musician who scores films and can compose music for a trio or for a full orchestra. David is a very good friend to the independent filmmaker and comes highly recommended by From the Heart Productions. If you need music to help tell your story, please contact him at DavidWakeland.com. That's davidraikl-n dot com. And Carol and I want to thank you for tuning in to the Art of Film Funding. Please visit our website at FromTheHeartproductions.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter. Good luck with your films, everyone.
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